dan, i wouldn't worry about it. its all crazytalk.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
"But the Amen Break IS chopped; it's a tiny drum break that has been sped up, or slowed down, and recontextualized..."
those are hallmarks of editorials. composition tends to be less dependent on source material. if a song can retain its identity by removing the source material and applying the transformations to something else, that would also be another good test, though it really fails in the case where dr. dre goes out and hires session musicians to recreate the sample because he doesn't want to pay some licensing fee.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
where do you get this nonsense
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
everything is dependent on source material, whether you're composing for brass or a drum machine or on a laptop
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
"where do you get this nonsense"probably some lawrence lessig blog
"everything is dependent on source material, whether you're composing for brass or a drum machine or on a laptop"it's not dependent if you can swap the material without being destructive to the piece. in those cases the samples/instruments/etc are incidental.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
define destructive
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
i'm so confused right now. where is geir, by the way?
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
destructive meaning the song falls apart. e.g. singing dogs could use any samples of dogs and it would probably still sound like singing dogs. there wasn't a james brown of dogs in there that really made the song shine.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
i'm beyond confused now. its like a spiral of confusion. the dogs really lost me.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno if singing dogs is a good example though, since it's really jingle bells. (though jingle bells remains jingle bells whether it's brass horns or dogs singing it)
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
So when Elisabeth Esselink creates her Solex record from chopped up bits of albums she been unable to sell in her store, what is that? Just "looping sections of music just to sing over?" A creative compositional tool? Editorial? She could swap the drum break she found for this song with the Amen drum break, and then what? I can't follow this at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE8dLFCNfyA&feature=relmfu
― Hey Jude, don't make it BAD MENTAL HEALTH (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
i'd argue though, that the fact that the singing dogs author chose jingle bells was also incidental. it would have worked just as well if he chose "we wish you a merry bark-mas"
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
what if I sample a brass horn imitating a dog singing jingle bells
over the Funky Drummer break
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
f f f f f f f f f funkydrummer
― iglu ferrignu, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
re: solex, if solex doesn't care where the samples come from, if they are in fact chosen by random process, then it's totally compositional.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
you have a lot of rules
Original poster long gone I see lol
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
this thread gets thehttp://www.musikiwi.com/design/images/artistes/15725/477772.jpg
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
amen
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
can mods change the thread title to "Nunez on Composition"?
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
if you care where the elements of your composition come from, then it isn't a composition. got it. i learn something new every day.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U4Lhuoqw-zI/S_Pt4ptBYwI/AAAAAAAAAVg/mnNV8FcqAu4/s320/warning-brain-explosion-zone.png
― Hey Jude, don't make it BAD MENTAL HEALTH (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
lol hurting
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
Nunez is on some platonic/geirbot shit here
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
"if you care where the elements of your composition come from, then it isn't a composition."you can still care, like if you made a recipe for a cake, you'd probably want some really nice, locally sourced samples for the ingredients, but the cake should still work with supermarket grocery samples.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
http://covers.openlibrary.org/w/id/590639-L.jpg
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
i think a bunch of rap guys did this already
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
like if you made a recipe for a cake, you'd probably want some really nice, locally sourced samples for the ingredients, but the cake should still work with supermarket grocery samples.
you have never baked a cake and I claim my $5
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
I think a bunch of posters said that already
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
does cornbread count?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
xposti think you're a buttface already
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
so to extend the baking metaphor, hip-hop is like a cake made out of cookie crisp or something. The little cookies are already baked!
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
btw jiffy still tastes pretty good next to the scratch-built cornbreads. just sayin.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
orig poster wld have been better off leaving 'compositional' out of it altogether and saying 'Artists that have used samplers as an interesting tool in a non-groove-oriented way' or something.
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
or something indeed.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
"hip-hop is like a cake made out of cookie crisp or something."
cookie crisp cake sounds amazing!but dr dre would pay krusteaz to make generic cookie crisp to avoid paying the cookie crisp corporation $...
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
also he would market bass-heavy, overpriced spoons to eat this cake with.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
EATS by Dr. Dre
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
you're not going to endear your way out of this one with humor
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
xp Or just "Nerdy white people that have used samplers"
― And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
humor won't save you now. we want to hear more about the wonders of musical composition.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:53 (eleven years ago) link
haha x-post
i, for one, would like to know more about how editing isn't an element of composition.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
not really editing so much as editorializing. are you recomposing a cake, or arranging it in such a way as to proclaim, "damn i really like this cake! A+"
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
have you ever actually listened to Fuck Tha Police or All in the Same Gang or or or I can't even
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
at least w/r/t to the 1000s of samples P.E. layered to oblivion, that seems pretty solidly compositional. you don't agree?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
I get the impression no one subscribes to your arbitrary distinction between editing and composing
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
I mean the Bomb Squad's method of "composing" was to put five guys in a room, each on a different sampler/instrument, and then have them "edit" their parts together live
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
if only we could get back to talking about sampling and birdsong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rKjOR-4964
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not sure what you're saying -- that the fact that they do it live doesn't make it compositional? i don't think that's necessarily true.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
S- isn't going to come back is he? He just dropped this turd on us and ran away.
― And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link