Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

why does everybody need to be convinced so hard? is it because it is television? people don't act convincingly in real life.

people act erratically and without apparent motive all the time imo.

why does everybody need to be convinced so hard?

? have you not heard of the notion of two actors having chemistry?

i dunno if it's the episodes themselves or just my particular view of it right now, but i feel like we're seeing some of the limitations of jon hamm the actor, or at least the conception of the don draper character by hamm and weiner et al. hamm almost has his speech patterns, gestures, tone of voice, etc. down too well.

kartheiser is really the standout in this show -- it's not really a believable character in terms of verisimilitude of gesture, voice, etc. but it's a really interesting and absorbing creation just the same. especially true in this last episode.

I guess I was reacting also to the "not convinced by Lane kissing Joan" and whatnot. Like if ever there was anything that portrayed people just doing stuff and stuff happening to them I think it's mad men. Episodes have themes, characters have arcs, but for the entire series, characters have done things for reasons we (at least I) can't fathom. I think it's neat.

I guess I've heard of actors having chemistry but I guess now that I think about it it's never something I've tried to observe critically or w/e. I think about the writing on this show a lot more than the acting.

Now you've made me try to think of when I last actually NOTICED chemistry between romantic leads, and I think it was that Adjustment Bureau film with Slattery in it, between Matt Damon and Emily Blunt.

i think chemistry is something we're more likely to consciously perceive in absence than in presence. when the story, behavior and dialogue seem to suggest that to characters are "passionate" about one another, but the performances don't convey this adequately, we notice the discontinuity. i don't notice any great chemistry between pare and hamm, but nor am i troubled by its absence. they do okay together, imo.

[kartheiser's pete is] not really a believable character in terms of verisimilitude of gesture, voice, etc. but it's a really interesting and absorbing creation just the same.

otm. was saying something similar upthread. i never believe that pete is an actual human being or that he would excel in his corporate role, but he's a lot of fun to watch (and hate).

re: chemistry - it's important to remember that Don's ideal partner was set up as the psychologist woman and they would have been perfect and it felt like a huge letdown on Don's part to suddenly decide that he wanted to marry Megan. Like he was regressing to this simple, and totally hot, secretary. All credit to Pare this season for making Megan seem more than just a trophy who got promoted at work due to marrying the boss.

on top of that you have Don acting totally monogamous and - shockingly- pretty together, which i think we all assume is just a ruse.

I think that even with Megan being a modern girl in 1966 she probably wouldn't feel in too much of a position to be rejecting the proposal of this guy she likes a lot even if he's maybe not her absolute DREAM GUY? And on Don's side, he's in the classic position of being in a relationship with someone because they're Good For You, and she evidently is in many ways, but that makes it a p fragile partnership from his side of things.

English people in Mad Men always make me cringe a bit, Lane excepted. Did we really use to talk like that in the 60s?

i dunno all cues in the script point to megan and don being very attracted to one another -- they can't keep their hands off each other etc. and frankly that doesn't come off convincingly in the performances. probably for reasons that are complex and can't be helped. i think some of you folks are overanalyzing it.

it's important to remember that Don's ideal partner was set up as the psychologist woman and they would have been perfect and it felt like a huge letdown on Don's part to suddenly decide that he wanted to marry Megan. Like he was regressing to this simple, and totally hot, secretary.

I always assumed that the reason Don didn't end up with Faye is in large part because Faye was so terrible with children, which is pretty important for him, since he has no idea what to do with them).

"i never believe that pete is an actual human being or that he would excel in his corporate role, but he's a lot of fun to watch (and hate)."

This is so weird, because does Pete seem like a very slightly exaggerated version of people I have met and whom I have seen excel despite being largely despised by everyone around/under them.

Megan seems to make an awful lot of social faux-paus. Dropping that Don was divorced at the Heinz meeting, loudly exclaiming Cynthia's name at the dinner party, embarassing Don at his surprise party...

hands up if you couldn't remember kenneth's wife name either

(it's not usually my habit to read recaps/re-watch eps of long-form dramas so i don't really remember tiny details of this show the way y'all have tho)

They should've asked Pete, who should've confessed he didn't know either. I should definitely be a Mad Men script consultant.

xpost

I actually not sure she'd even been named in the show up until that point.

^^^ yeah I don't think she'd even been on-screen...? maybe at the last Xmas party?

they should've asked TRUDY

she's been on screen a number of times, ken was out to dinner with her and her parents, at don's party. pretty sure ken mentioned her name in the office.

Cynthia Cosgrove (Larisa Oleynik) (née Baxter) is Ken Cosgrove's wife, the daughter of Ed (Ray Wise), who is the CEO of Corning. Cynthia is a New York society girl, who appears to have moved in the same Manhattan social circles as the presumably older Trudy Campbell. In season four, Cosgrove refuses to use Ed's connections to get new clients for Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, claiming that he doesn't want to be like Pete Campbell. He calls Cynthia "his life" and unlike Pete Campbell, does not want to use her or his future father-in-law to get business. In the fifth season premiere, her character is listed during the credits as Cynthia Cosgrove, implying that they were married between the fourth and fifth seasons.

ah right Ray Wise!!!

too bad u can't rss subscribe to that fashion blog's mad men posts w/out getting everything along with them

some of yall really pull out the magnifying glass on this show huh

good episode

oh no roger

this will not end well

the time is totally out of order, this is great

roger trippin balls
don and Megan bein assy to each other
everyone is so miserable, this is gorgeous

This whole episode feels pretty gimmicky to me so far. Maybe I just don't want to watch a show about the 60s...

Megan acting out was pretty good though.

Amazing episode. I feel like they fit three hours of Mad Men into one hour.

Roger tripping was done way better than I expected.

i liked how about 1/3 of the way through you realize the episode isn't in linear time

don/megan drama is getting ridiculous

they have a real weird relationship

Megan is the adult in the room at almost all times, for sure.

Also, and I'm sure it was intentional, there were some shots of Jane in this episode that made her one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.

I think I'm gonna rewatch this after work tomorrow. There's no way my brain could process all that was happening.

Awesome episode. They've definitely gotten considerably ballsier in terms of style and pace this season IMO.

i lol'd so hard @ rogers "its going to be a beautiful day"

Haven't watched this yet; did they play "White Rabbit"?

"I Just Wasn't Made For this World" :)

white rabbit is from '67 so no

that's not the title of the song xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyhU2mVyFAk

Oh.. These Times, maybe? The Beach Boys. Sorry!

What a weird episode! Also my uh…version had 10 minutes of a Lifetime show spliced in. Which was extra confusing.

Mad Men isn't on lifetime? What have I been watching? Oh my..

So far this is my favorite episode.

lol that happened to me too...took a second to realize it wasn't a shot of young sally

"there were some shots of Jane in this episode that made her one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen."

no kidding; she also talked and had a lot more personality in this episode than I ever remember seeing. the shots of her on the bed at the end were stunning.

i really like megan.