Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

man that is like my personal beef that half of people who self-categorize as 'stoners' think that they have to be all into tie-dye and jam bands and shit

it's a fine drug you don't have to fuck it up by becoming a stereotype

I don't get why Megan didn't s assert herself more before leaving the office instead of festering until the sherbert scene. Then the running around the apartment reminded me of a little girl, much how Betty would become with Don. It all makes for drama and a story but in real life, if she were my friend and told me what happened, I'd ask her why she even left town when she didn't want too.

I suspect it's more difficult when the guy asking you to leave is also your boss. And it's 45 years ago.

and when he's some charismatic yet self-centered bulldozer of a person who pays no attention to anyone's wishes but his own

yeah, I think she said something about not having a chance to discuss it since it was just dropped right in front of her in the office? She's not such a modern woman to feel that casually undermining her husband+boss would be acceptable.

Or she's into festering, some people do that

Why does Don love Howard Johnson's so much? He's so weirdly gleeful at the whole idea of it.

oh, Slate (aka Mad Men Blog) already did that: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/04/23/howard_johnson_s_on_mad_men_why_the_chain_was_cool_in_the_1960s.html

it's important to remember that Don's ideal partner was set up as the psychologist woman and they would have been perfect and it felt like a huge letdown on Don's part to suddenly decide that he wanted to marry Megan. Like he was regressing to this simple, and totally hot, secretary.

like, she's just a dimbulb who married her boss

These criticisms are really harsh on Megan's character by the way. Actually she isn't just the airhead secretary, she wants to be Peggy really (although it's a moot point whether she's that good at her job). But I think a lot of the other characters view her as just the dimbulb who married her boss.

I suppose most of the Don/Megan tension is down to the fact that Megan isn't the person Don thought he was marrying (hot secretary, perfect with children, young and fun and open to just running off irresonsibly). Probably because they only knew each other five minutes before getting engaged. Maybe in some way Don's still trying to do the things that would make Betty happy and gets confused when Megan doesn't respond and/or feels like she's being treated like a child.

That said, her bringing Don's mother into it was a dick move, but then so was driving off and leaving her.

I suppose part of the problem with Megan's character so far is that they haven't really given her an internal monologue or fleshed her character out like they did with Betty very early on. That's not to say they won't.

The last couple of episodes have been awesome by the way. So happy it was Roger they gave the acid trip to and not Peggy or Don, the visuals in that scene were terrific.

Totally want more Ginsberg stuff now, really intriguing character.

Do you think they're leading towards a Peggy/Ginsberg hookup, or is that too obvious?

imo yes

to them hooking up and it being obv

I kind of felt like Roger dropping his sarcastic, practiced exterior and just being really honest and kind seemed like it knocked years off his life, too. It may have just been the fact he wasn't in a suit, but it felt like the lines dropped off his face and the ridiculous laughter under the influence was more genuine happiness than we've seen from him forever.

Megan’s comment about Don’s mom was pretty low and not “100% justified” imo. Pretty few circumstances where I think a comment like that would be justified. I felt somewhat sympathetic for him (up until the ditching in the parking lot obv.) if only because I don’t think he was intentionally trying to be a dick, but (as mentioned above) he was treating her “well” in a way he was just accustomed to doing, particularly with Betty. Megan understandably resented being treated like a child and had every right to lash out, but Don’s intentions were at least good. I mean dude was just SUPER excited about treating her to the Howard Johnson experience and my opinion might be skewed because I found that endearing, but it seemed more of a cluelessly insensitive thing than straight asshole thing.

I felt like she blurted it out and only half knew what she was saying, until it was out and they were both like "oh shit, Don's mom?!?"

Yeah I sort of feel like bringing up the dead is a nuclear option and esp. since Don has no family and Megan's like one of the two or three people alive that truly know who he is.

don was being an arsehole, as usual really, but no matter what circumstances lead you to make a joke about your spouse's mother who died during childbirth it's never going to be justified.

I need to re-watch I don't remember Don being an arsehole so much as Megan acting like a 14-year-old.

See, that's the thing! They were both being horrible in pretty archetypical couple ways, and it's really easy to see either side as being not really that off base until you notice that they're hitting each others' triggers all over the place while not acknowledging it.

There may be an element of Megan still being pissed off at throwing Don a surprise party and have him throw it back in her face and be a dick about the whole thing.

Basically they are both terrible at doing nice things for one another.

I don’t think he was intentionally trying to be a dick, but (as mentioned above) he was treating her “well” in a way he was just accustomed to doing, particularly with Betty. Megan understandably resented being treated like a child and had every right to lash out, but Don’s intentions were at least good.

I think this nails it. Don only knows how to do things one way, it seems, and Megan lets her displeasure build instead of letting him know her feelings up front. So, while Don was doing things the wrong way this whole trip, he didn't become a dick until he left her behind at the Howard Johnson's. Megan wasn't being bratty at all. She was playing Betty's role until she could no longer take it, then she snapped and said the thing about Don's mother. Both parties are at fault, it was a bad day.

I'm most bothered by how they came into work together the next day, obviously moments after the chase around the apartment, smiling.

i loled at
Dawn: How was your trip?
Don: Great!

Megan wants a partnership, Don wants a young trophy wife. That seems reductive, but it really is how all this is playing out.

i don't think Don wants a young trophy wife at all. I beleive he had a lot of genuine emotion for her that led to him proposing, but he's so damaged he doesn't know how to express it or how to be in a partnership. he's showing signs of changing, imo, and while not fucking whores is a small step, it is a step. plus he looked to be genuinely remorseful at not being able to find her, but he couldn't show that to her, so he chased her around the apartment first.

I think Don THINKS he wants a partnership, but any time he's confronted with the actual partner aspect of it, he sulks or acts out.

right, cause he's really damaged and has had very few healthy relationships

Yeah that's a bit reductive - Betty was the young trophy wife. I think Don also thinks of her as old-world and stuffy (look at her husband and where she's living) whereas he imagines Megan as closer to the double life he's been living all this time hanging out with cool art students and teenagers and disappearing to California and everything. I think he's pretty reliant on her at this point and has a lot of emotion invested in it even though it's patently going to be a disaster.

Also, she's not terrible around the children, which probably helps.

The only time we've seen her with the kids this season everything seemed a bit awkward. Surely they felt more comfortable with her as a temporary nanny than as a stepmother.

that would be true for anyone, though. awkwardness pretty much unavoidable when it comes to stepchildren/ parents.

looking forward to Sally's "your not my REAL mom!" moment

Ginsberg + Peggy hooking up is too obvious. It won't happen.

Ginsberg Sr.'s comment about being the original was so cheesy and seeing Peggy do that little stoned giggle was great

what was he talking about with "building his case"?

foreshadowing I guess

I'm most bothered by how they came into work together the next day, obviously moments after the chase around the apartment, smiling.

that's some old-school don-and-betty shit -- no matter what kind of shit you've been up to, you show up to the business function smiling and looking flawless.

besides, it's in don and megan's best interest not to give the office any grist for the "trouble in paradise" gossip mill.

actual location used for the hojo exteriors:

http://www.highwayhost.org/California/LosAngeles/BaldwinPark/baldwinpark1.html

interiors here:

http://dinerwood.blogspot.com/2010/02/rods-grill-back-off-arcadia-were.html

Does anyone foresee, what with the ominous turning of hippie tides and ambient violence, Megan dying under mysterious circumstances and Don, as the primary suspect, breaking under scrutiny and being fully exposed? Just a feeling... I also think that Pete's gun is a total MacGuffin.

I think that's just you.

um yeah

it's a fool's game to try and predict this show afaic

Has anyone checked on Harry lately? I fear he may be locked in Pete's old office with no way out.

Somebody's got to die, though, right? And who more fitting than the guileless positivist drowning amid the rotten cynics? Again, no idea. I just feel the show ramping up to something on that scale. Last 2 eps have been among the series' best.

Ginsberg's dad's gonna out a main character as a Nazi war criminal.

Isn't it a foregone conclusion that Joan's husband is going to die in Vietnam? (obv not a major character, but still)

why does anyone have to die?

everyone dies eventually

the orange sherbet is a chekhov's gun!!