(above post should have been every generation "since" the 50s, not "in")
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
contenderizer posts are like the portlandia 'dream of the 90s' song with zero irony
well, they're based on living in seattle, portland and olympia in the 80s and 90s, so that shouldn't be too surprising. but i don't know where you get "unironic" from. i'm not particularly proud of any of the things i'm describing, and i view them all quite ironically. gen x was the flowering of a generation that had been feed a myth of specialness by boomer parents, and a myth of faux-punk hipster cool by MTV.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:03 (twelve years ago) link
i took contenderizer's list to be what certain gen xers think of themselves not necessarily how it went down
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:03 (twelve years ago) link
xp - our parents were silent gen and early boomers though! the majority of the boomers had special snowflake millenial kids
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:04 (twelve years ago) link
iirc, and i do bc i can just scroll up the thread, he prefaced his list by saying, "what would you say are the traits the define you & your peers, and when were you born (if you don't mind my asking)?"
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
RE: Gen Y loving authority figures & consumerism. Is there any overwhelming evidence for this? Just curious. Personally my values and the values of my friends seem to be more in line with Gen X, but I feel like "Gen Y <3 consumerism!" could just be a nice way to market stuff via cultural narrative. Also I guess if you're writing an article about Gen Y and having a hard time coming up with something besides computers/internet, you can just pull this out of your ass as a way to contrast it with Gen X.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
gen x was the flowering of a generation that had been feed a myth of specialness by boomer parents
quite the opposite -- I saw boomer parents hardening into Reaganites.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:06 (twelve years ago) link
remember upthread where I showed that that is a sorta make believe narrative
― iatee, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
if anything, i'm pretty sure Gen Y purchasing power is comparatively low bc of economic downturn and we will likely see less spending, more saving, less mortgages, more rentals, etc.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
there are way more of you Gen Y-ers than there are of us.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:09 (twelve years ago) link
like before "Generation X" was coined, ours was called the Baby Bust
This thread will be noted in the annals of history as the first shot fired in the Generational Wars. Which us gen x-ers will lose why because we're such slackers.
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:09 (twelve years ago) link
watching our mtvs
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:10 (twelve years ago) link
i think every generation thinks they have a special immunity to marketing.
― Mordy, Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:01 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
maybe, i dunno, but gen x was an attempted response to the way that beat freedom, hippie revolution and punk nihilism had been appropriated and turned into cartoons of themselves for marketing purposes. the idea that "you are a target market" was everywhere, as were naive attempts to construct cultural identities that might be resistant to this. it wasn't entirely new of course, but the dedication to keeping it small, keeping it homemade, keeping it unflashy & recycled & out of the camera eye were new-ish. resistance not through rebellion, but through disengagement, invisibility. of course this was a romantic attempt - it was dreamed up by kids. but i'm not romanticizing it.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:11 (twelve years ago) link
wtf is w/ this "special snowflake" meme anyway? i mean, did you young 'uns go to "special snowflake" indoctrination camps or something?!?
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
yes, we did.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
that would explain crabcore and twilight, at least.
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
http://catmacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/why_so_mean.jpg
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
xp to adam bruneau: well the gen y thing with consumerism isn't necessarily dealing with the same type of consumerism gen x was 'rebelling against'. and i'm obviously not saying it's a blanket generalization for everyone; i hardly buy anything ever except food and rent and i pirate my pop culture anyway. but there's a huge prevalence of product-love and brand-love and defining ourselves by the things we own and surround ourselves with.
ok i'm updating my list:
1. harry potter2. spongebob3. nutella
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:14 (twelve years ago) link
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:03 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:05 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, my list is an attempt to describe the values and attitudes that got enshrined as representative of gen x. i don't think i'm bullshitting anyone or romanticizing anything in describing that. as seen from within, at least, these are the things that seemed to unify my peers.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:14 (twelve years ago) link
I never felt any special connection to gen X.
― L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
― sarahell, Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:04 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, good point. but all that "you are SPECIAL and everything you do is GREAT" shit was definitely part of how i was raised, both at home and in school.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
the gen-x "rebellion" against marketing was really all about being sick of seeing beer commercials w/ Phil Collins and Steve Winwood ... Madison Avenue figured out that they should call cars "punk rock" and make raver-friendly clothes and make pets.com-style commercials, ergo problem solved!
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:16 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, p much
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:17 (twelve years ago) link
except i'd say that there was, underneath it, a deep unease about being commodified, about being sold ideas and things in a world constructed entirely of sellable ideas and things. this unease did not result in immunity, as many gen xors assumed, but no surprise there, right?
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:18 (twelve years ago) link
oh my god you guys did not invent unease with commodification!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:21 (twelve years ago) link
nutella? nutella is pretty generation-neutral i think.btw, if you did succumb to their marketing, you can get $4 for each nutella you ever bought, because they lied to you about health benefits of hazelnuts.https://nutellaclassactionsettlement.com
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:21 (twelve years ago) link
Here, can I just real quick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSjLiQxEZlM
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
gee, where have i heard this "i am deeply uneased about being commodified" before?
http://www.allenginsberg.org/uploads/images/chapman002.jpg
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
and even Ginsberg and the Beats were late to that party ... read one Karl Marx!
the dedication to keeping it small, keeping it homemade, keeping it unflashy & recycled & out of the camera eye were new-ish
no they were not
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
next thing you'll know they'll claim they invented ice cream
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
like if you want to see some special snowflakeism, it's this idea that Gen X somehow had a novel take on capitalism
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
i feel like our generation was the first to grow up in an America in decline. Because there were fewer of us, things like school spending were deprioritized, so the shiny new playgrounds and schools that were built for the boomers were decaying when we were kids. But maybe that's just a California thing?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
honestly, looking back, i think gen x (and gen x into gen y) was obsessed with marketing and commodification. we were horrified by the cruddiness of the tools that were supposed to convince us, but that only wound up making us suckers for better tools when they came along - notably when we started selling to ourselves. we wanted to be "outside the system", but only wound up expanding the system's playing field. steve jobs was a boomer, but in the long run, he sort of seems like the prototype for where gen x wound up - architects of superior marketing and commercial environments.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
and growing up thinking America's in decline is healthy!
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
jobs is also the archetypal transformation from "work OUTSIDE the system" to "fuck you, I AM the system!"
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:25 (twelve years ago) link
it was a New Jersey thing, too, sarahell ... which prob means it was a nationwide thing!
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:25 (twelve years ago) link
i also feel like the kids who grew up while Clinton was President aren't Gen X.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:26 (twelve years ago) link
like 1975 should be the cut-off.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
Before the internet but after the fall of the big three TV channels to cable and the victory of FM radio was an interesting time media-wise, esp with the arrival of MTV, which was huge in its time. If anything I found the 80's more commodified but less earnest about it than the 70's. There was always a quiet desperation to the ironic retro chic of the 80s and it got worse over the course of the decade.
― L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
Gen X in a jpeg:
http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/182/325/867/kennedy-alternative-nation-mtv-1995-rob-zombie-beck-2c2c5.jpg
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
i never suggested that gen x was the first to be uneasy about being marketed to. i merely said that it had a distinct response to the unease, as observed at a particular point in time.
and yeah, the gen x "losercore" stance was prefigured in many ways by beats, hippies and punks, as i said upthread. in some ways, there are two parallel development and apotheosis periods there. beats were a relatively small-scale social phenomenon that flowered a few years later in mass culture hippiedom. punk (in america) was a small-scale social phenomenon that flowered a few years later in gen xor shit like nirvana.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:28 (twelve years ago) link
No Logo sold more than the Beats tho - but less than Marx admittedly.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:28 (twelve years ago) link
^ mass culture gen xor shit like nirvana, i mean (to my own xp)
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:29 (twelve years ago) link
being Gen-X prob has something to w/ liking or tolerating Pauly Shore. which makes about much sense as focusing on some alleged immunity to marketing hucksterism.
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:29 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah I remember when Pauly Shore was elected most popular something.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
Pauly Shore was awful! Kennedy (the MTV chick) was awful!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
But maybe that's just a California thing?
I feel this is ultimately an oil crisis, stagflation, Reagan recession thing but also, especially Prop 13. I don't know about gen y, but compared to the boomers, I felt like my generation was abandoned.
― L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
When Gen Y became school-age in California is when the state started passing increased school funding ballot measures. So yeah, Gen X was fiscally abandoned for sure.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago) link