Going To Law School

this isn't college. isn't a grad school p.s. just a cover letter, basically?

no

I mean not exactly. The book I read has interviews with a bunch of admissions officers at top 20 law schools. They all say that they don't want to see people just repeating whatever is on their resume. At the same time, you're supposed to be more mature and focused than a college applicant, and most schools prefer to see something more relevant than "my study abroad experience" or "I admire my grandma."

But law school is different from other grad schools in that they're not looking for previously acquired content knowledge. An English graduate program expects you to know literature very well. Med school expects you to know science very well. Law schools, for whatever reason, like to think that they're going to be the ones shaping your legal mind, and they're ore interested in seeing good raw material.

more

I don't think a cover letter is supposed to just repeat what's on your resume either (though I'm one of those anti-"objective" people). I think the essay should be a convincing statement of purpose - an argument about why you're choosing to do this that demonstrates some self-knowledge (and knowledge about what you're getting into, though you don't have to know what you're going to do in any specific sense), as opposed to a college statement that's supposed to reveal what's distinct about you that would make the class more interesting.

(which isn't to say that law schools are uninterested in making their classes more interesting, but they're going to do so with people who have a pretty clear sense of purpose with regard to something interesting)

but what do I know, I only got into a few of this top 20 schools. I never took Kaplan or Princeton Review, just a ghetto LSAT course that gave me a lower score than expected (non-marginally lower than when I took it a second time without studying).

I will reiterate what I said a year ago...

Take a LONG, HARD, REALISTIC look at the money end of the decision.

Please. Everyone goes in thinking that they are going to be in the top 10%. The overwhelming odds, obv., are that you will not be.

Me, I got lucky. I landed what is turning out to be a great job that I intend to hold down for a long time. I also have a gainfully employed spouse, so my student loan payments are not crushing.

Still - do not go in blind. This is a SERIOUS financial undertaking.

I don't think you're really contradicting what I'm saying, gabbneb.

don't sweat the personal statement. just write something half-way coherent, and you'll be fine.

I think I'm directly contradicting "What every admissions guide I read says over and over again," but I could be quite wrong. Anyway, yeah, I think it's a numbers game moreso than top colleges are.

Classic: Having my first law school application complete and transmitted (NYU)

Dud: Getting home and finding a typo in the personal statement (I referenced "Harpers Magazine" -- no apostrophe). FUK!!! I READ THAT SHIT SO MANY TIMES AND HAD A FEW OTHER PEOPLE READ IT!!!

Still, it feels great to have the first one sent off, and NYU is a longshot anyway. The rest will be easier to complete now.

Good luck with the applications. Don't fret about the typo. It happens.

thx

Other schools I'm applying to:

Fordham, Penn, Columbia, Cardozo, Brooklyn Law, Rutgers (Newark and maybe Camden), and also William & Mary and Northwestern exclusively because they offered me fee waivers so why not.

Some v. good law schools in that group. You'll be fine.

You seem to have the requisite amount of self-obsession, at least.

Accepted to Cardozo with sizable scholarship - probably going there barring completion of LOL Ivy League Hail Mary pass.

What's the best thing I can do to start preparing myself considering I've been out of school five years and working kind of an easy job?

http://www.coconut-court.com/images/BeachJ450GREEN.jpg

What's the best thing I can do to start preparing myself considering I've been out of school five years and working kind of an easy job?

(1)learn and practice how to take law school exams.

(2) drop some money on a few emmanuels for the first-year classes -- and actually READING them -- so that you aren't befuddled by all of the Socratic hide-the-ball crap you will be exposed to during the next 3 years of yer life.

ugh, I applied to Cardozo and al lthat shit - unfortuantely one of my schools kept losing my transcripts, so my app won't be complete until next week. Waitlist 4 me : { : { : [[[[[ :{;

also, is yer cardozo scholarship conditioned on maintaining a certain GPA/class rank? i was offered a deal like that from seton hall -- essentially, 1st year totally paid for (except living expenses) -- but i passed on it.

that, and the fact that the typical Seton Hall student = EVERY bad stereotype about north jersey in the flesh. but that's just me!

yeah, conditional - a little over half tuition paid first year, second year have to stay in about top 40% of class to maintain full scholarship, and there's a sliding scale after that.

I'm hoping to get offered money at another school to give me some bargaining leverage.

congrats on Cardozo at least. I think my chances are a bit slim at this point with apps in so late :[ ]

I'm hoping to get offered money at another school to give me some bargaining leverage.

ha -- i tried that shit w/ both RU-Newark and Fordham. both told me to go pound sand (fordham b/c they think that their shit doesn't stink b/c they get all the folks who REALLY wanna be @ Columbia or NYU; rutgers-newark b/c they were already super-cheap and don't have as much money to throw around as seton hall had).

doesn't hurt to try, but you may not succeed.

Don't despair. First, you still have a shot. Second, you can always go somewhere lower on your list, work hard and transfer. I met a girl who (in spite of obviously being very bright) got a 143 on her LSAT and could only get into Widener. She kept in close touch with the Temple admissions office, did well her first semester, and was able to transfer second year.

So considering you have better numbers than that to begin with, you probably have options.

My friend at Fordham Law said like 90% of the people there are embarrassed and ashamed that they're at Fordham; Columbia and NYU were their real schools of choice.

fuk I'll be really happy if I get into Fordham.

That description makes it sound kind of like Rutgers undergrad - it's a good school with a lousy atmosphere because everyone there wanted to go somewhere better.

I only applied to the 5 schools I really want to go to; I don't want to gamble my current financial freedom on a school I'm lukewarm about for a chance to transfer somewhere else. If all else fails I can apply next year, but I'll by 26 by Fall 2009

I met a girl who (in spite of obviously being very bright) got a 143 on her LSAT and could only get into Widener. She kept in close touch with the Temple admissions office, did well her first semester, and was able to transfer second year.

that's especially impressive, considering that widener has a C-curve (which TOTALLY fucks up the chances of a lot of that school's graduates).

From the sound of it, it was her continued show of interest in Temple that made the difference. Numbers aren't everything.

What's the best thing I can do to start preparing myself considering I've been out of school five years and working kind of an easy job?

Take the next statement to heart:

Law school is about four letters - I-R-A-C. Issue, rule, application, and conclusion. You spot the issue, you recite the relevant rule or rules, you apply those rules to the facts, and arrive at your conclusion. Your grades will depend - to the tune of 95% - on your ability to adhere to and succesfully manipulate this formula for your exam answers. So, from day one, do the following: Fuck all the inter-personal bullshit, don't try to score points with the professors or engage in any of the petty, middle school level assholery. Learn the rules, practice applying them to facts, and repeat.

That description makes it sound kind of like Rutgers undergrad - it's a good school with a lousy atmosphere because everyone there wanted to go somewhere better.

Man, if I had a nickle for EVERY time I thought to myself "Assholes. I CHOSE to go to Rutgers. Stop pissing in my coffee"....Those over-entitled jerks didn't realize the huge value or just objective quality that Rutgers offers as a university.

i chose it too, btw

add BLAM's advice to mine -- when you learn and practice taking law school exams, apply IRAC. there are definitely books out there (and probably webpages) if you are puzzled about it.

I have some experience with appellate opinions in my work so I essentially know what you're talking about.

I have some experience with appellate opinions in my work so I essentially know what you're talking about.

This is going to sound SO condescending and shitty, but here goes -

Forget everything about the PRACTICE of law prior to your first year in law school. You can remember and reconnect therewith once you score a great summer associate job. All you need to do is learn the IRAC method, drill it into your brane, and make it so EVERY SINGLE ANSWER YOU GIVE TO ANYTHING is in the form of the IRAC.

I am not kidding.

The actual PRACTICE of law is SO much cooler - you actually get to use some imagination, you get to collaborate with others, you get to learn from others who aren't trying to hide things from you all the time, you get a paycheck instead of an interest-incurring loan check once a semester.

LAW SCHOOL is really about learning 1) the rules and where they come from and 2) how to apply them to facts. There is no magic formula and prior experience, while helpful as a source of perspective on things, won't help you when you get your first multiple hearsay question on your Evidence exam.

They really are two entirely different worlds - and thank god.

The extra years you have will help - you will automatically be more mature, able to separate school and life-otherwise, and will most likely be more adept at relating to the professors and others at the school, which will help.

But it will not help you in exams, and thus will not help you with your grades.

Treat it as a 10 hour a day job for three years, and you'll do well.

o yeah I know, the only sense in which I meant my experience might help me is that I already know what issue, rule, application and conclusion are and have read a whole bunch of appellate decisions where those concepts are (obviously) used. Like I have a basic idea of how these opinions proceed from I to R to A to C.

Word. Didn't mean to break pedantic on you.

I just got wait-listed at Penn -- does anyone have a good handle on how the wait=listing thing works and whether I can really help my chances by submitting additional materials?

dunno about law school, but my experience with wait listing involves waiting, sadly. i'm assuming they gave you a date when you will find out again and you basically just have to wait until then, and i guess they judge upon space issues and merit, but i don't they would accept stuff you sent them and/or consider them

they said in the e-mail that I could submit additional materials such as updated transcripts/resumes (which doesn't really apply to me) or an additional essay.

They also didn't give me a date >:(

then i would probably submit something and hope it worked but you never really know

yikes re: date, that's kind of harsh

i guess that means that they are waiting too see how many people actually enroll? but that wouldn't be fair to the waitlisted people really

Penn. is fantastic! Good luck with the wait-listing process.

uhg, my last transcript -finally- processed today--my schools have been waiting for weeks after requesting my report to get it.

I only had the money to apply to 4 schools, so ... I'm not sure what chances I have at this point.

Yeah, the processing took weeks for me too.

hmmm... having been laid off, if I don't get into a shcool this year, what then?

Is 26 too old to start law school?

fuk no I'll be almost 29

You could still probably get another application in to a surefire safety school if you're really worried, work your ass off, and transfer. Do it at CUNY or some other cheap public school if you don't want the financial burden.