This is the thread about job searching.

Quick question:

There are two positions that interest me at a DC think tank. The first, a Research Associate position, is probably aiming a little high for me, but getting hired for it is not out of the realm of possibility. I turned in my application for it a few hours ago.

The second, a Research Assistant position, is more likely because the qualifications are a little more relaxed.

However, I haven't applied for that second position, because I'm worried about the signals it sends out. If you were reviewing an application and you noticed that the same person was applying for a "lower" position, would this suggest to you that the applicant didn't actually think they were good enough for the "better" job? If that's the case, should I just stick with the one application I submitted, and hope that if they will also consider me for the other job? Or should I just turn in another application for the second job and not worry about it?

To make matters worse, I've had to resort to the "Dear Human Resources" opening to my cover letter, because no one will respond to my emails asking for the appropriate person to address it to, and it says "NO PHONE CALLS PLZ".

Shit, I'm going to end up at Long John's again, hopefully as a fucking manager this time.

lol cover letters and worrying about the human resources person having time to connect the dots and figure out that you are totally applying for two jobs at the same time

i feel like the dear whoever convention of cover letters must be a relic from the past, b/c even when i've called people asking about it they've acted like "who the hell are you and why are you asking this"

you should apply for both jobs

cover letters 100% get thrown in the trash afaict

then again I have not applied for a job using anything other than e-mail resumes or web-based application systems ever

Believe me, I wouldn't be fucking around with the cover letter except that the job posting says "Please submit a cover letter indicating that you are applying for the Energy-Research Associate position, resume (including the names of three references with email addresses and phone numbers), writing sample, and transcripts (unofficial is acceptable) using our online form."

OK, it's official then, I'll apply for this other job too.

I applied for two jobs in the same organisation recently, got interviews for both, on separate days, and I don't think anyone actually twigged I was in twice. I was hired for the one of the positions, and I spoke to the HR person and she said they'd done so many interviews that it wasn't surprising that no-one joined the dots.

Er, so yeah. Apply for both.

(also do "Dear Sir/Madam" rather than "Dear Human Resources")

I was using "Dear Sir or Madam", but then the first google results for "addressing a cover letter" all advise that using that is really out of date and should never be used.

Yeah I don't think you should be scared about applying for both jobs. I applied for two at the company I work for now and they actually gave me the better one despite knowing I applied for both. I just don't think it's something people normally make a value judgement about.

Federal job applications are insane

Ah, OK, I am a Britishers where we still do antiquated and outdated things.

some xposts there

Are they? I'm looking at a few positions on usajobs but I haven't actually followed through yet. At times pursuing the federal route seems promising, because technically I should be qualified by education alone for GS-9 jobs and under, provided I have the relevant skills.

xpost to ailsa
No, don't feel too out of date, I thought "Dear Sir or Madam" was fine too. I just wasn't made for these times..

This is so my thread, but i'll do it tomorrow!

I was surprised by how un-insane applying for a GS position was, but then again my last three jobs were all in the federal sphere, if not direct employment under the civilian executive branch. the most insane job application process, if you were to call it that, is enlisting in the military. I don't think too many other careers start off with nearly as much paperwork, much less a full physical examination.

some are better than others, i suppose, but KSAs - gah

HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED:

Applicants' experience will be assessed against specific position-related assessment factors which are directly related to the position being filled and are essential for successful job performance. Candidates who do not fully address all of the Mandatory Qualifications will not be given further consideration. A reference to the resume itself will be considered insufficient.

MANDATORY QUALIFICATIONS: (Each must be addressed separately in your
supplementary narrative statement. Applicants who fail to provide
the narrative statements will not be considered.)
1. Expert knowledge and experience in information technology cyber
security.

2. Demonstrated success in using information technology to improve
the delivery of program products and services to customers in an
efficient way.

3. Expert knowledge of technological trends in information
technology, and the evaluation of these trends and the use of this
information in managing IT systems acquisition and operation so as
to take advantage of new technology at the lowest cost, using new
technology to meet performance-based program goals.

4. Expert knowledge of national security systems policy and
experience in implementation procedures.

You will not be considered for the position if any part of the
application is incomplete.

narrative statements are pretty much the key. a lot of folks turn in resumes which are concise bullet statements about responsbilities, the govt prefers you to tell a story about how you kicked ass at whatever, not a list of what you had to do. a "narrative statement" can still be one sentence, btw.

Ugh. Summer job searching.

Oddly enough, I've never had to go through a proper job hunt. My first semi-real job was through a friend, my first internship was through another friend (not that the friend literally got me the job - neither case involved having the power to do so - but they got my foot in the door). Then my first real full-time job was like the third job I applied for, and the job I did after that I got through someone at that job.

This is my first "serious" job search where I actually have a good degree and feel like I could finally get a decent position that I don't hate. I think my lack of confidence may come back to bite me this time, though. I'm not sure how I'll react when I've sent in 30 applications and still have made no headway.

I just "finished" my first real job search after three months, and I've ended up with three part time jobs, zero benefits, zero days off (shifts from 3-7 hours, 7 days a week) and worries that I'm still going to have to ask my parents to help me out with rent in a month or two. I'm sort of still searching, but there's not going to be anything in the fields I'm interested in and qualified for until March or April. Also, I'm glad I applied to grad school for next fall, because it means the odds that I'll be stuck doing this for longer than that are pretty low.

The federal jobs I applied for had the most ridiculously long applications I filled out. One had around eight specific and detailed questions to answer in the cover letter, and one had an online questionnaire that took a while. I never heard back from one. A month after I applied for the other I got a letter saying my ranking was NC-93 or something (no explanation of what that meant) and my application would be past on to the person doing the hiring (no name given). Never heard anything after that.

how many of the govt agencies want that shit because they outsource it to some hiring agency that doesn't know anything about anything

christ, not this.

― J4gger Dynamic Pentangle (Just got offed), Wednesday, 1 October 2008 17:28 (3 months ago) Bookmark

also good luck everyone searching for employment, from what i've seen so far you need it

I just applied for two admittedly very similar jobs within the same department at a pretty small organization so I hope that's not a problem. I say go for it ZS.

I've been job searching for quite a while now - but my degree type doesn't offer many possible places to apply to.
Makes me sad.

Thanks for the advice everyone. btw, I switched over to "Dear Hiring Manager", which sounds...slightly better. I will likely use this thread to whine and complain A LOT about searching for a job, until I finally get a decent one.

Someone from the HR dept at a job I really want just called and surprised me with an initial telephone screening. I was a little out of it because I'm not feeling well today and hope I didn't screw up. :-(

awww.. good luck babe! (obviously the phone call bit is done, but I am being optimistic and wishing you luck for your second interview!! ;)

Thank you!! I do hope they call back. I just didn't expect to get that call and was really caught off guard. Argh. So stressful.

Job hunting is certifiably insane. Do not expect it to be much better than a random stabbing.

Either a) all agents are cunts or ii) i am some kind of pariah in their world or 3) my email and phone are fucked in some totally mysterious manner. The number of times I have been promised an email or a call back which has never materialised. Dude rang me today, was totally eager, said he'd email a couple of opportunities and then call later. Nada. Rang back (this was a rare occasion when his number wasn't withheld), naturally he was busy, left my details, still no joy ;_; am really starting to feel like a leper or a ghost.

Searching for internships seems to be even worse than searching for jobs right now. I consider myself lucky to have got one interview thus far, many of my colleagues have had none.

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

charming

looking for a job over the month of december was the worst and most humiliating experience of my recent life. the number of awful phone screens I had, one where they asked me the "you have two nearly unbreakable lightbulbs and a 50 story building and we want to know which floor you need to drop them from in order to make them break in the fewest number of attempts" question (which I could not answer, which led to them essentially hanging up on me), plus face-to-face interviews where they were like, "okay answer all these javascript questions" "I hate javascript" "this job is 90% javascript" "oh no-one mentioned that in the two phone screens I had" situations. Bah! somehow I lucked out getting a job from a random recruiter who barely spoke english who gave me the worse job description I've ever seen and I was hired after a brief interview where they just wanted to make sure I wasn't a freak or serial killer. I can only hope most people will luck out in this manner because looking for work blows.

i don't quite get that lightbulb question, surely you'd just drop them from the 50th floor in order to make them break?

...I was hired after a brief interview where they just wanted to make sure I wasn't a freak or serial killer. I can only hope most people will luck out in this manner because looking for work blows.

soooo awesome! congrats.

still not sure if the recruiter thing is worth it. the weird zone it occupies between semi-employer and customer service creates a lot of frustrating role confusion

the temp recruiting thing has been working out swimmingly for one of my friends, but he has a moustache so that's probably why.

Job hunting ... Found a couple of slightly older ads without submission deadlines on them. Emailed the companies to ask if the competition was still on. No replies. Just reply, okay? Yes or no. That's it. Is it bad form to ask a company if its competition is still on when they post vacancies WITH NO FUCKING SUBMISSION DEADLINE? I don't really want to work for a company with inept HR or where nobody checks the i✧✧✧@somecomp✧✧✧.c✧✧ mailbox.

i don't quite get that lightbulb question, surely you'd just drop them from the 50th floor in order to make them break?

I don't get it either. it was stated that the lightbulb may or may not break. I could not get a straight answer when I asked "well what if it doesn't break on the 50th floor? then the whole question is moot?" I was just told that it would, I guess. They want to know the lowest threshold. This is a google interview question, apparently, so if anyone here has successfully answered the question, I'd be happy to know what it is, because I certainly haven't found anyone who can answer it. I was also assured there was a hard value numerical answer to this, and it's not a process question.

WTF!? What sort of job would ask such a question (programming?)

Seriously, at first I thought it was somekind of trick thing like "hah I'd drop it into traffic and a truck would smash it, so - once, if I aim right" but if you dont know the physical makeup of "nearly unbreakable" bulbs how can there be an exact answer?

Well, the 'fewest number of attempts' bit makes me think you'd just go straight for the roof and drop them from there. I'd probably give a stupid answer like 'whichever floor has a hammer with which I could smash them' or 'the floor on which the management is located in order to tell them that this is an inefficient and uneconomical use of resources'.

Seriously. How is the 50th floor not the answer? Especially taking into account the "fewest attempts possible" disclaimer.

A link to the puzzle and a solution, don't know if it's the best:
http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/google-and-the-puzzle-of-dropping-eggs/

lol Ed, that wasn't an elongated "eff you", that was a general comment on job-searching

Ledge that Q&A is posed quite differently to how akm phrased his (it makes a little more sense that way)

aye well i figure akm's may have been somewhat garbled in translation :)

there's a better solution in the comments of that link:
http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/google-and-the-puzzle-of-dropping-eggs/#comment-106915

OK so I guess I didn't blow the phone screening because I got a another call today and have an actual face-to-face interview next Friday!