i find it hard to say that portugal were that great. like italy they took the game to spain, rather than parking the bus, as everyone else has done against them this tournament. like italy they at least matched spain for most of the game (in this they overachieved, they're nothing as good of a team as spain on paper), but faded at the end (last quarter of an hour of the ninety minutes for italy, the entire period of extra time for portugal). spain often start slow, but del bosque got it wrong tactically and this compounded it. negredo didn't look like he had any idea of what his role was, and was largely ineffective when the ball did manage to arrive at him. silva and xavi both underperformed massively in the first half imo. i didnt think fabregas was that great but an improvement on negredo? absolutely. navas looked livelier than silva but going for the byline and whipping in crosses - for who? - which invariably hit the first man and at best went out for a corner, as if spain know what to do with one of those, just isn't a good enough plan b. thought arbeloa had a bit of a torrid time and should've been sent off. thought pedrito was great and if only he'd had more playing time - this season, this tournament - he might just have gotten something.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like the spain backlash is so fucking strong that we give portugal so much credit for containing them and stopping their play, and yet ignore the fact that despite portugal never gave spain control, neither did they look like scoring, or have a shot on target.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
but faded at the end (last quarter of an hour of the ninety minutes for italy, the entire period of extra time for portugal)
Yes, teams are noticeably falling off against them - it's really heavy going to not have the ball, especially when you choose to press as Portugal often did.
― you can't stream a pancake (onimo), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
xp.ha some terrible english in there, you'll decode it.
yeah, but i think you have to press spain to beat them. it's the best tactic. you just need to be better than portugal going forward - which germany are.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
thank fuck somebody who used to play in England scored to enliven this otherwise by-the-numbers encounter
― ENPBGIW (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
The shots on target thing is so misleading; Ronaldo is about as good a goalscorer there has ever been and still cocked up a couple of decent to good chances. Especially the break at the end, that is usually his bread and butter.
― Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 28 June 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
A penalty that hits the net is never shite
Only because penalties defy analysis. The only useful analysis you could do would be to assess their saveability by height, disguise, distance from the corner, etc. Of course we never hear that, it's always "great penalty" for the ones that go in and "it's a poor penalty to be honest" for the ones that don't - even when they're identical in every respect except which way the keeper dives.
The thing is that ultimately that's all that matters, so all pundits more otm than me, basically.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 28 June 2012 06:40 (eleven years ago) link
that chance near the end was difficult, tho it needn't have been if the decision and execution from meirelles wasn't shite
― Ну, там твое место, там сабе будь! (darraghmac), Thursday, 28 June 2012 08:08 (eleven years ago) link
The only useful analysis you could do would be to assess their saveability by height, disguise, distance from the corner, etc.
I saw something a few years back when they did this and worked out that the best way to take a penalty in terms of risk vs likelihood of scoring was to hit it low and hard into the corner. Up there with all that research about how cornflakes get soggy when they're wet.
― you can't stream a pancake (onimo), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:15 (eleven years ago) link
I once read the best way to save penalties is to stay standing up in the middle, as between going left, right and through the middle people are most likely to go through the middle and you can cover more space standing up etc.
― Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:19 (eleven years ago) link
But also keepers feel like heroics come from big diving saves or whatever, so they always do that
― Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:20 (eleven years ago) link
The amount of panenkas that people are going to be trying now, I'd totally stand still and catch them if I were a keeper. (I'm not, clearly.)
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:24 (eleven years ago) link
I bet those chipped penalties look fucking lame if the keeper doesn't move. Berbatov looked like the coolest penalty taker in the universe until he had one saved when it just looked shite.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:26 (eleven years ago) link
Ha!
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:26 (eleven years ago) link
the Graun's weekly youtube roundup thing today has a clip of five shitty panenkas, most of which have precisely that happening
― jacob von logflume (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:30 (eleven years ago) link
A keeper would make a panenka extremely unlikely by standing still for the first penalty of a shoot out. Just standing still for each one seems like an unwise policy.
― Tim, Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:32 (eleven years ago) link
28% of the goal is unreachable for any well-struck penalty, iirc the research. High into the corner to the side of the kicker's favoured foot is preferential, but an arc around the goalie's reach is a close enough depiction.
― Ну, там твое место, там сабе будь! (darraghmac), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:36 (eleven years ago) link
from the initial angle last night nani's looked unsaveable- if the keeper stands and reacts there's a good chance that's within arm's reach.
But the keepers were good in the penos last night tbf, just a technically good shootout.
― Ну, там твое место, там сабе будь! (darraghmac), Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:42 (eleven years ago) link
if you just stand still, this happenshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XuEGHHoZGM
― Rosie 47 (ken c), Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:19 (eleven years ago) link
actually i guess he did save it!
― Rosie 47 (ken c), Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:20 (eleven years ago) link
game was fuckloads better than Lineker and Hansen made out
Yes, fuck off to the golf course and let people who actually interested in football comment on it. Didn't Hansen once say he wouldn't watch football if he wasn't being paid for it? Why have the BBC also got tonight's semi-final? At least Klinsmann will be on the panel, but does this mean they won't be covering the final?
― Too Busy Thinking About Mr. Abie (Tom D.), Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:28 (eleven years ago) link
Strange way to divvy it up - ITV got four of the six ENG/IRE group games, but BBC got first dibs on the QFs and both SFs. Final live on both channels.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:33 (eleven years ago) link
Oh right, I forgot that ITV would be more interested in Engerland than the semis.
― Too Busy Thinking About Mr. Abie (Tom D.), Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:34 (eleven years ago) link
Don't know what the viewing figures for non-Roy's Boys semis will be like
― Too Busy Thinking About Mr. Abie (Tom D.), Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:36 (eleven years ago) link
8.8m watched SPA-POR last night.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:39 (eleven years ago) link
So financially ITV made the right choice
― Too Busy Thinking About Mr. Abie (Tom D.), Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:40 (eleven years ago) link
Well, 20.3m watched ENG-ITA; BBC also got a bigger audience for their one ENG group game than the two broadcast on ITV, AFAIK.
8.8m is quite a jump from the sub-7m who watched the GER-GRE semi four years ago (but there was generally a lower level of interest in the that tournament from the get-go).
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 28 June 2012 11:51 (eleven years ago) link
premature but my team of the tournament so far
--------------------Casillas--------------------
--Lahm---------Pepe--------Hummels-------Coentrao
---------------Pirlo-------Kheidira--------------
---Ronaldo-----------Ozil--------------Iniesta---
-------------------Ibrihimovic-------------------
Has Ronaldo playing out of position and Lahm too(kinda). Mountinho can feel hard done by and Gomez can play his way in tonight I guess. Perhaps Jordi Alba unlucky as well. Pretty obvious team really.
― pandemic, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
cronaldo rw?
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:22 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I know. Just trying to shoehorn him and Iniesta into the same team. It's like Gerrard and Lampard all over again! ;)
― pandemic, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:24 (eleven years ago) link
iniesta am, ozil rw, ronaldo lw
iniesta is just awesome, player of the tournament contender playing in maybe his third best position
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:26 (eleven years ago) link
i think ozil has looked alright playing wide / inside right for madrid a few times
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:27 (eleven years ago) link
Yes that's betterxp
― pandemic, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
rui patricioboateng corluka papadopoulos alba tymoschuk zyryanov modric srna konoplyanka gomez
boateng corluka papadopoulos alba
tymoschuk
zyryanov modric
srna konoplyanka
gomez
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:38 (eleven years ago) link
bit indie
― Number None, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:39 (eleven years ago) link
that's not supposed to be the best players, there's no ron vlaar for a start, but they are at least good players & with an emphasis on eastern europeans players who performed well in flawed sides or without much experience or out of normal position / playing style
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:42 (eleven years ago) link
you wouldn't change them for any of the England team
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:42 (eleven years ago) link
Is that you 'Arry?
― pandemic, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
Btw Ismael, did your dad enjoy the QF?
― pandemic, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
redknapp has just sold corluka to lokomotiv for £5.5m ftr
just didnt fancy im
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
ha no it only went through yesterday so that would have been levy i guess
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
Corluka didn't perform that well except in the Spain game which was perfectly suited to him (ie it was about having exceptional positional sense and not having to worry too much about being skinned for pace).
― Matt DC, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
Would love to retain Corluka but guess he wants to leave by now?
xps I only spoke to him briefly from some airport or other, but he said it was definitely the best game he saw (he was also at Poland-Russia and Portugal-Czech Rep). He did say he had a cracking view of the penalties, from a point opposite the dugouts and towards the end where they were taken. Hopefully there'll be a photo or two of england agony that I can post for general amusement.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
thought provoking idea -- all managers are fired/suspended in may, chief exec buys/sells whoever he likes, (re)appoints manager in july
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:56 (eleven years ago) link
Wait, he was at Greece-Russia; it was *in* Poland.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
it's plausible that arry's still going around wheelin and/or dealin, raking in money selling spurs players.
― Merdeyeux, Thursday, 28 June 2012 13:59 (eleven years ago) link
Corluka didn't perform that well except in the Spain game = yeah playing out of position alongside a bundesliga II player and conceding 1 dodgy goal vs spain is pretty damn good, also conceded only 1 vs italy
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Thursday, 28 June 2012 14:00 (eleven years ago) link
raking you say xpost
― Know how Roo feel (LocalGarda), Thursday, 28 June 2012 14:00 (eleven years ago) link
corluka didn't even perform well against ireland