Boredom, apathy and life fullfillment

house renovation like laurel's is tempting* but i'd fear i'd get the building weatherproof and one room habitable and then not bother with the others.

* and people make a good living from exctly this, buying, renovating, selling at a profit

my problem with this thread is the 'boredom' bit. i don't go out much, or seemingly do much, but i have a high boredom threshold and just don't register this inactivity as a problem.

^^^

you can tell you people aren't from the uk because television programmes about people renovating old houses are pretty much the only thing that exists here

(but i am!)

(very much in the kevin mccloud camp rather than the sarah beaney camp though - at least his criticisms are done on camera at the time and not voiceovered afterwards like hers seem to be.)

hahaha so true

i was otm'ing the high boredom threshold not anything involving renovation

I don't want to make a profit, though, I want to make a "statement" and a home. Having my own home that I decide things for is like some unlivable dream to this renter.

Once the renovation was done, I'd start on the garden. At night I would host northern soul all-nighters in my barn and drink a lot.

Funny how, when asked about what they would do if they had more money than they could spend in a lifetime (or some equally astronomical figure that would genuinely allow them to think of money as no object), the answer a lot of people give seems to lead to the eventual creation of MORE money (e.g. starting a business, or investing in land, or renovating a house and selling it at a profit). It's not that I don't blame anyone for saying this, but the idea of profit and gain appears to be depressingly inherent in so many people's minds, even when presented a situation where money (or the value of money) practically ceases to exist.

xpost that was nothing to do with Lauren's choice because "having an idyllic home to live in" is the ultimate aim in her case, but working towards building it is part of the satisfaction.

I also watch TV, hang out with friends, watch movies, go to the opera, read lots - I don't really think of those things as "nothing," but more like "quiet leisure," which I think is just as important (or more!) as active leisure like classes or home improvement projects or volunteerism. For me, the shit job was really eroding the enjoyment from the quiet leisure activities since there wasn't a balance with more active stuff that I enjoyed.

Quiet leisure is still doing stuff - far from doing nothing.

My 2nd favorite thing to think about if I had fuck-off wealth is ways to give it away. (1st favorite: never work for a paycheck again)

If I had big funds I'd buy us a perfect house outright, set up a fund to give an income adequate to allow us to buy food and new stuff (clothes, culture, recreation, etc etc), set up a travel fund, and then do what I do in my leisure time all the time - cycle, play football, write, read, cook, etc - and probably take on some more hobbies besides. I enjoy my job, but its not a vocation - I do it so I can afford to do that other stuff anyway.

DL - yes, definitely, but I think that people often consider quiet leisure as "doing nothing."

hmm, i do, but only because my 9-5 is my designated quiet leisure time

yeah quiet leisure can be pretty sweet - in my original post I was referring more to doing stuff that I don't even particularly enjoy that much or at least don't bring me anything: drinking with the same people I've seen the day before and the day before that one, watching a series out of habit because I can't even seem to be able to commit to a challenging feature length DVD. I think my problem might be somewhat interlinked with mild ADD symptoms tbh.

"Quiet leisure" is no more or less fulfilling or indulgent than partaking in amateur sport (I'm talking about walking, cycling, having a hitabout - not marathon running or whatever). It's a welcome pastime with certain benefits, but ultimately achieves little in the long-term rather than a superficial sense of "that was a great run and I feel better for it" or "I really enjoyed that book and I feel better for it".

Lots of little triumphs can and do outweigh one big one, sometimes.

Yeah, especially since most of us are going to live our lives without big triumphs, or with very few. Life is the lots of little triumphs for 99.999% people.

And there's nothing wrong with small triumphs. None at all. In fact one of the biggest causes, as Aimless alluded to upthread, of unhappiness is expecting to experience massive beneficial sea changes in one's life. In my experience such changes happen infrequently and are usually the result of an equally major crisis such as a redundancy or a break-up.

ultimately achieves little in the long-term rather than a superficial sense of "that was a great run and I feel better for it" or "I really enjoyed that book and I feel better for it".

Feeling better for it is the name of the game, though, if you don't HAVE to work for anything? Apart from contributing to causes or setting goals for yourself somewhat arbitrarily, aren't your own feelings like the major indicator of whether a thing is "good" or not? If quiet leisure makes you feel better, clears or calms your mind, gives you time to process, mull, whatever, then it is "good." If you feel enervated and unsatisfied, then it is "bad." That seems embarrassingly simple, tbh...?

Another question is "If you were given the option of utter financial security and comfort (so for example you could build that dream home and never have to work again for the rest of your days), except you would in turn never be able to do the one thing you enjoy most that you do today (in my case I would lose the use of my ears and therefore not be able to hear music again) - which would you choose?".

I don't know for sure what the one thing I enjoy most that I do today is, but this is a total monkey's paw question so I'd decline the utter financial security and comfort. Like, if I accepted the security, the one thing I enjoy most would be spending time with Jeff and he'd be hit by a bus and I would win millions of dollars in settlement money from the city. Not going to risk it.

Or it would be sleeping, and I would die cackling and mad in my luxurious Lakeshore Drive mansion, surrounded by concerned servants (including the fish tank cleaner).

Feeling better for it is the name of the game, though, if you don't HAVE to work for anything? Apart from contributing to causes or setting goals for yourself somewhat arbitrarily, aren't your own feelings like the major indicator of whether a thing is "good" or not? If quiet leisure makes you feel better, clears or calms your mind, gives you time to process, mull, whatever, then it is "good." If you feel enervated and unsatisfied, then it is "bad." That seems embarrassingly simple, tbh...?

― check the name, no caps, boom, i'm (Laurel), Tuesday, 28 August 2012 16:09 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It is simple, but it depends on whether ultimately one is satisfied by fleeting short-term satisfaction until one's dying days, or whether one feels they have a more long-term calling. If hunger, strife, debt were completely cancelled out, would we spend our days sitting around picking our bums, shagging each other senseless and watching Friends re-runs or would people end up getting frustrated? Would the idea of work-fulfilment and achievement beyond winning a game of 5-a-side eventually seep out of the global consciousness or are human beings so innately narcissistic that many would feel unhappy without the concept of a higher calling?

There are as many answers to that as there are people, of course.

I know my answer tends towards the narcissistic option. If not I'd be a lot happier in my life since going to work would not feel like so much potentially wasted time. I would go home each day looking forward to doing everything I was put on this earth to do - work and play. Sadly I've never felt like this.

this thread is hitting many of my buttons at the moment.

following the recent death of my wife, i am actually in a position whereby i never need work again.

it wouldn't be a life of luxury, but we would be able to cope quite easily.

i have taken a few months off in order to deal with the summer holidays with the intention of heading back into the office when the kids go back to school.
as it is, i'm still undecided as to what to do.

problem 1 : my job bores the life out of me.
problem 2 : the daily logistics re kids/school etc, mean that work + single parenting = chaos i just cant face.

however, money would be tighter than ever before, and i do like the social aspect of work (sort of), and not working and just doing the kid thing would drive me f*cking nuts and suspect i'd end up very very bored ..

yet i feel that this could all be viewed as an exciting opportunity, just that i am not in the right place yet to figure out what it is i would actually like to do with this opportunity.

What about part-time work in another field? If the income is mostly supplementary, you might have quite a wide range of choices?

Is working in a different job, if not right now then a bit down the line, feasible? You say finances would be tight but you would be easily able to cope, so I think taking advantage of that and giving yourself some more time would make sense. You have to take care of your social needs somehow to keep yourself from going crazy in the meantime, though.

xp - yeah, what Laurel said!

and thats it .. what else would i want to actually do.

due to constant kid kaos for last 6 weeks i haven't really had the space in my head to give it much thought, but its definitely an option.

also, i do fear stepping out of the 'proper' job market at the age of 44 as it would be very difficult to get back in should there be a need later on.

and then there is the other aspect of this thread : would i feel fulfilled if i became a 100% dad and gave up work altogether.

some days i think that could be good for us all if i just did the proper parenting thing, and then there are others when i dream of office boredom.

its quite a headf*ck of a situation to find yourself in.

i remember talking in the office a while back, and everyone saying how if they could pack it in if there had no money worries, and yet, when you find yourself in that position, the reality is not that straightforward.

some Zizek 101 here, but a good point well made:

happiness is a conformist category. And moreover, none of us really want it. Which is a good thing, since the pursuit of happiness is an Enlightenment value that gets at only one aspect of what it means to live a good life.

"Let’s be serious: when you are in a creative endeavor, in that wonderful fever--'My God, I’m onto something!' and so on--happiness doesn't enter it," he says. "You are ready to suffer. Sometimes scientists, I read in a history of quantum physics... were even ready to take into account the possibility that they (would) die because of radiation. Happiness is, for me, an unethical category." It's also boring.

You can be happy without being moral. You can be happy without being interesting or engaged in the world around you. You can be happy without having a single creative idea or interest or passion. You can get everything you desire, and still not be happy. So why even focus on finding bliss?

i remember talking in the office a while back, and everyone saying how if they could pack it in if there had no money worries, and yet, when you find yourself in that position, the reality is not that straightforward.

I have had this conversation as well, particularly as it pertains to coworkers of mine who are old enough to have retired 20 years ago but stick around. I always insisted that I would retire tomorrow if I could, but whenever people ask what I would do, it usually involves working, just somewhere different.

Leaving the job market at 44... yeah, that's daunting. There's so many variables - your line of work, what kind of pension benefits you have coming to you (so if you couldn't get back into the workforce, it would be okay), the job market. If you did, you would probably have to find a way to stay current in your field, but if you do that, why not work? Bah. So much to consider.

exactly my point(s) carl.

so much to consider, and all that while dealing with the fall out from the emotional intensity and demands of day 2 day stuff for the kids ..

still could be worse ..

gah this thread hits home hard

I work in a pretty pleasant office, but my job has now reached crashing levels of boredom. Soon to change, though I'm not party to when that will actually happen.

but I get home and I'm just a lump. I'm working up the will to start walking again after work - I live near a lovely neighborhood full of trees and big houses that I enjoy walking through...the weather has been so interminably hot these past few months that I used that as an excuse not to go. But I need to and now that the weather's cooling it might be the right time.

We are also heading towards some very dark times financially in a matter of weeks so any dreams I had of taking art classes or dancing classes are going back out the window again. So it's either drawing at home off my own bat or writin. Cooking is a thing that fulfills me, so that keeps me from just petering out creatively all together.

A little voice keeps telling me I should be writing more for myself, and I want to...but I'm so crushed by the vanity of the exercise. Like, who on earth would want to read what I dreamed up in my silly head, that hasn't been contractually asked of me. And the question of being good enough is so soulsucking. I need to not care about that but how do you even start?

sigh. idk.

A lot of people like this - http://750words.com/

Not that it is by any means a cure-all, but my strategy for when boredom and apathy become overwhelming is simply to teach myself something new. Maybe it's a career-relevant skill, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's cooking something I've never cooked before. For me apathy is tied to the mundane, and the best way to break that sense is to remind yourself that the world is filled with new experiences if you are willing to try them. Get in your car or on the train and travel to a place you've never been, or get on the bus and go to a different neighborhood. Bring a camera, bring a notebook. Maybe it seems obvious but it usually helps me.

http://deuceofclubs.com/books/166worthless.htm

There's so much shit to do. But really, why bother with any of it? You're going to die eventually. Then you're really going to wonder whey you bothered with all that shit. (216)

What advice would you give someone who cannot find the motivation to do anything - even things they know they enjoy - because they're too far gone down the line of "What's the point" or "I'm irrationally averse to doing it"?

is it really harsh and unhelpful to think that nobody else can answer those questions for you, or even really suggest a route thru? whatever enlightenment (nb not Enlightenment) we achieve is only coming thru ourselves i think

i never feel closer to the answers than when i realise i'm asking the wrong questions

Someone else can open a door for you (often without even being aware they're doing it) but only a person themselves can choose to step through it.

yeah i mean i think u can take cues, ideas, mantras from other people but the whoness of you? the point - tho i don't like that word either - is internal only if it is a thing

internal only, if it is a thing at all

is what i meant

have/had to lose all notions of "failing" before i cd get past it i think. likewise everything else that's unsatisfactory

i can reconcile this with still having swathes of sadness

caveat that i still believe there's a bunch of Maslow-y stuff that needs to happen first

I think counselling, therapy, self-help books, religion even, can be hugely helpful - more than just cues or mantras - depending on the person of course, and yes of course they have to want that change. maybe even the 'whoness' of you, who seems somewhat resistant to that idea (if i am reading you right) is less permanent than you think. but just to speak from my own experience, cbt didn't completely change who i am but it did stop me from lying in bed all day every day wanting to die.

i don't really believe in a permanent "me" but it's necessary to think/speak like that sometimes? yeah there are a bunch of ideas - therapies included - that can make us less ill. none of them can imbue purpose afaik

i'd probably include those things that make us "well" in the "Maslow-y stuff" category - one needs a certain level of wellness or self-cohesion or whatever the hell it is before one can proceed to notions of fulfilment? but also probably a lot of therapeutic interventions are doomed to fail because the underlying problems are the existential ones they're not equipped to address. getting some kind of brain chemistry balance is probably necessary but a long long way from an answer