Cronenberg's Eastern Promises Spoiler Thread

I think the real giveaway is in the scene before he gets the tattoos, where he has to renounce his family and allegiances. We're meant to understand that Nikolai has his own allegiances and moral code throughout the film, although it's never tied to the fact that he's a police informant until the end -- I just had the idea that he was a loyal thug within boundaries, but that he kept his own moral code.

So the renouncement scene, while he comes off very hard and disconnected, seems somewhat illegitimate because we've seen him show his own initiative in (presumably) setting up that police raid. I think that he did make it through the Russian prison system, and that he has more personal reasons for taking down the mob than the fact that he's undercover.

Think the FSB health plan covers tattoo removal?

id say he's ex-kgb which explains his totally badassness and general moral ambiguity.

def not an informant - he's some sort of cop.

i'd say that he outranks the english policeman that he reports to.

yeah maybe or it could just be that guy has no sway over him because theyre from different organizations in different countries

and you know because hes such an incredible badass

different organizations that carry different weight. i guess that's what i meant - like russian secret service op vs scotland yard inspector.

also as far as the kgb angle he asks naomi watts all interested like if her uncle was really in the kgb - and then later refers to him as "old-school" implying that yes in fact he was in the kgb

xp- the scotland yard guy did seem to be in contact w/ someone who had the power to order nikolai off the case

yeah which he was abt to do until he SAW THE TATOOS and was all awww shit it is so on

this movie was so fucking sweet btw

i'm sure scotland yard guy was in contact w/ russian superiors. i just thought that nikolai was in a position of authority as well and wasn't some junior level recruit.

i was thinking of him more as a lone-wolf w/lots of autonomy type - rather than high ranking. but that distinction might be immaterial in context.

ah, the "he's old school; he knows how it's done" comment. it could totally be an understanding btwn two old kgb guys, but it could also just be an understanding btwn two russians - people are disappeared, strange things happen, keep your mouth shut.

xpost - his general bad-assedness gives him the lone wolf vibe. i guess my thinking was that an operation of this nature involving cooperation btwn at least two superpowers would involve a fair amt of organization.

I can't decide whether the movie leaves *too* much unexplained - I really want to see it again to watch the details more closely

yah this thread is def making me want to see it again and its playing 4 blocks from my door - likelihood: probable.

There's a scene where Kiril says something like "I'm finally understanding how he operates - he plays everyone off of each other" about his father. I kind of took that to be implicitly about Nikolai as well (not in Kiril's mind, but in the film's)

do you think viggo knew he was being set up by the boss and just figured that this is his opportunity to get his stars and he'll just deal w/whatever is coming his way

No, I don't think he knew. The scene in the steam room shows Viggo caught totally off guard - his head is down and remains down until the henchman are right in front of him.

I think this is significant - it's his moment of weakness. Perhaps he's a bit drunk off the idea of the power bestowed by the stars and lets his guard down

i don't think he knew that being "made" was so that he could be set up, but even though his head is down i don't think it meant that he didn't suspect something. it would be VERY strange if someone like him didn't think that there was anything fishy about the scenario.

and i don't think that he looked relaxed. his head was bowed, but he seemed totally coiled/tense.

But he really doesn't appear to notice their presence until the last possible second

yeah like hey youve been working for me for two weeks wanna join my super secret club :)

maybe he was just playing possum to give the assassins a false sense of safty

but isn't it possible that he thought he might have a better chance of dealing with whoever was coming if it appeared that he was like, "zzzzzzzz"?

ha xpost

Fuk, I want to watch that scene right now

there are cam versions on bittorrent

imo not really worth watching but prob ok for important research

Notice that scene also reveals that Nikolai has both male and female genitalia - a subtle allusion to his duality

I agree that he was caught off guard in the steam room, which did seem out of character.

I wondered whether Kiril's dad told anyone else (like the old Russian mafia dudes who came to tattoo Nikolai) whether the stars were for a setup, but obv. the answer has to be no. It would probably not be seen as an acceptable move anyway by Semyon's peers?

Yeah, I wondered that too, but assumed he'd have no need to tell them and probably wouldn't for his own sake.

yeah this is what i was thinking. you dont let outsiders in on yr sacred rituals. he was going waaaay out on a limb to save his son. which is why it ended up such a sweet situation for viggo.

Semyon's peers probably would've supported the killing of Kiril, as Kiril's killing of his old friend was out of line.

So... I kinda buy into the "happy family" scene at the end as being almost a case of Nikolai daydreaming. Wishful thinking. He gets the kind of things "wrong" that a man would tend to get wrong in a daydream: The perfect, gurgling, beautifully dressed baby; the filmy, flimsy, bare-armed dress on the mother. She might as well be wearing pearls, a shirt-waist and pushing her brand new Hoover. Honestly. That scene is just too idealized, too perfectly happy ending.

And then we're pulled back to Nikolai, sitting in the shadows where he's chosen to make his world, with that heavy expression of heartbreak in his eyes. He's seen a sliver of possible normality and knows he'll never have it.

And ... Has anyone else mentioned how HOV and EP perfectly bookend each other? HOV opens with violence, yes, but immediately afterward with the most idealized, corny, non-realistic family scene in my knowledge of cinema. It's so over-the-top happy cheese that it's hard to watch. But then things turn darker. And darker. And darker.

EP opens in that darkness, goes even darker, to the point of total loss, then comes back to end with another Happy McCheese Family Scene.®

If you consider, for the sake of argument, that HOV actually begins on a day in the desert when Joey Cusack dies and Tom Stall is born, and that EP ends with Nikolai having courted "normality" and chosen the dark, then the tale begins and ends with a man alone.

And just for the record -- the person who said EP is showing four blocks from his/her house? I have to hate you a little. I've seen it, yes, but only by making a five-hour round trip drive.

Feh.

Oh shit, that's a really good reading actually - the daydream thing.

that brief scene manages to be very odd. she and the baby are dressed up, there's a special meal... it's a bit like they're expecting someone.

Has anyone else mentioned how HOV and EP perfectly bookend each other?

it definitely occurred to me that in HOV viggo was a stereotypical "good" character who had dark secrets and in this one he is a stereotypical mobster bad guy who has a secret good side

But they have to do a third. You know, just one more really violent but incredibly well crafted movie, so it can be a "trilogy".

Fie! Fie on trilogies! Fie on quartologies and quintopelies and sextepelies and whatever bazillionth number Robert Jordan was up to before he died.

But seriously... It was thrilling that there was no sequel to HOV, and I hope the same holds true for EP. The pleasure and pain of working out your own vision of the characters' futures is a large part of why those movies work, to me.

did you guys really think this movie was that good? i liked some of it but i didn't find it as endlessly fascinating as the rest of the posters on this thread. and the diary voiceover stuff was brutal.

i mean it's an ok undercover thriller and the fight scene is great but it's not really that special!

I wish it was out on dvd already, it would solve some of my what-to-get-the-kids-for-xmas braindeadness.

I think it is out on DVD. This movie is fucking good but I'm a sucker for Cronenberg so I'm biased.

"i mean it's an ok undercover thriller and the fight scene is great but it's not really that special!"

Define "special"? It's a solidly entertaining well put together film! That's pretty special in this day and age.

My socks were KNOCKED OFF!

Define "special"? It's a solidly entertaining well put together film! That's pretty special in this day and age.

-- Alex in SF, Monday, December 24, 2007 7:43 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i just thought it was way more of a conventional thriller than i'd been led to expect and that there was some really weak stuff in it. like i said, the diary VO, the terrible scenes at home with naomi watts' family... even the reveal that vigo is undercover, which made his character so much less interesting to me.

I saw it on DVD last night. Fantastic film. I like the ambiguity and loose ends left at the end of Cronenberg's recent movies.

I liked it. The diary readings were occasionally painful tho iirc

were there any real russians in this movie?

dope movie. fight scene is one of the best i've ever seen

yeah that fight was ridiculous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mark_of_Cain_(2000_film)

been meaning to get a t()rrent of that^.Anyone seen it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mark_of_Cain_(2000_film)

link fucked up

asdgsdfbgg

Can't help feeling I'd have preferred this film had the same raw material been dumped in the hands of Polanski.

i feel the same way about transformers

s1ocki otm here. watts was so insufferably morally offended college freshman here

http://www.avclub.com/article/eastern-promises-sequel-getting-ready-film-march-248596

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/1920_zpsjtt5rcby.jpg

hope they show us how he got his powars

Hurting & s1ocki were on teh drugs