― Miles Finch, Friday, 14 January 2005 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link
Since when has rock'n'roll been about melody?
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link
See, I can never get this. Whenever someone tries to explain how different rock and hip hop are, it doesn't make sense. They're both extensively sample heavy music, (rock guitarists are always taking riffs wholesale and it's no big deal), rock uses the same drum beat ALL the time (that 2/4 rock beat is in tons of songs. I mean, Neil Young used the exact same beat, no variation whatsoever, in 2 songs on Harvest and I don't recall anyone coping this stance), they both sing about the same things, and I swear I have heard TONS of rap songs with melodies.
― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:06 (nineteen years ago) link
no thank you, its too all over the place. no structure or format...
no melody, so not for me...
no real songs, really...
Brian, you should meet this guy called Geir.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:12 (nineteen years ago) link
OMG TECHNO IS FUTURISTIC
― LSD ARISTOCAT (ex machina), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link
Did none of them mention that it's full of samples of histrionic soul vox?!
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stevem On X (blueski), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link
Also, surely hip hop beats of today are more imaginative than rock's? And most rap songs have as much melodies as your basic three or four chord rock song, it's just that they aren't necessarily in the vocals.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Miles Finch, Friday, 14 January 2005 14:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:24 (nineteen years ago) link
Not by me.
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Friday, 14 January 2005 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Aaron Garon, Friday, 14 January 2005 14:39 (nineteen years ago) link
i only lend my ears to Hip-Hop, Jazz and Funk, and am poorly versed in your area of expertise. that said, i fully accept its inherent excellence.
rawk on.
― stanley crouch's fists of fury, Friday, 14 January 2005 14:40 (nineteen years ago) link
That's my bands new single
― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 14 January 2005 15:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 16:35 (nineteen years ago) link
"house/techo/etc - again, very modern and futuristic at times, or at least it used to be"
― Bumfluff, Friday, 14 January 2005 16:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:38 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm looking at the man in the mirror, I'm asking if he's...
― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link
(excuse these rampant generalisations but i feel they are necessary to make a point),
― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link
thanks for the clarification there
― Stevem On X (blueski), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link
x-post
― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link
re: people "pretending" to like other stuff/not like rock as much as they really do, there probably are many that do. Pointing out this phenomenon isn't equivalent to saying EVERYONE does this.
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link
You honestly believe he is going to listen to any suggestions?
― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:04 (nineteen years ago) link
hahahahahaha
― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link
It's like saying "Pasta is my fave food, and I can't help but think it's superior to all other foods", and then stating "the debate is whether or not pasta and only pasta is as satisfying to the palate as he claims".
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link
Though I am not brian jones and I suspect this thread was meant as a joke, I'd like to posit the argument that hip-hop, being more involved with lyrical content and groove, has more straightforward and repetitive drumming and sparce instrumentation, especially during the "verses", which are a mouthful compared to a typical rock song. Compare the drumming styles of Sabbath and Zeppelin, Stones and Beatles. The most interesting drums I can ever remember on a hip-hop album were back in the sample days and taken from classic 70s rock and made much more simple and repetitive.
― John Lennon, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link
(xpost)
― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Milton, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― Milty-Q, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― Snappy (sexyDancer), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― Snappy (sexyDancer), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link
MindInRewind, if you said "pasta has a characteristics x, y, and z, and all other foods do not do x, y, and z as well as pasta does", don't you think there's potential for debate there?
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link
I regret my first post on this thread now.
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
(xxpost)
― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 14 January 2005 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 17:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Milton, Friday, 14 January 2005 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link
we get the point, miccio.no wait, i don't, actually.
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― KeithW (kmw), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― darin (darin), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:05 (nineteen years ago) link
Oh boo freaking hoo. No, it's not a crime.
And it's not a crime to dismiss musical traditions that stretch back 30 (hip-hop) or 50 (soul) or 110 years (jazz) with one sentence, particularly one that reveals appalling ignorance and a willingness to believe in secondhand stereotypes. But it should be. And failing criminality, don't expect me to get into a "debate" with someone who doesn't know enough to even carry on a conversation, much less a debate. If you can't say anything more about jazz than "no thank you, its too all over the place. no structure or format," you have provided evidence that you don't really care about investigating other forms of music to see whether you'd like them as much as your favorite.
Perhaps someone could even suggest him some things to listen to from other genres that contain the elements and characteristics of rock that he likes.
Perhaps. Perhaps he could have phrased his initial question that way, rather than posting a bunch of one-sentence denunciations of entire musical forms. That would show that he's willing to listen, rather than an imperialistic "show me instances of your music living up to mine."
It was best said earlier on this thread: "People are moved by all kinds of music, and nobody has any business telling someone that the music they like has inherently inferior emotional qualities."
Yeah, Milton, I reckoned the whole thing was tongue-in-cheek. I only got revved up when 00ps got all "So what if it's a joke? He's right!"
I don't know wtf you're on about.
As I said, I was on about this:
yeah let's stifle all debate, dismiss anyone who has contrary opinions by calling them a troll.
― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rumplestilskin, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:22 (nineteen years ago) link
I only got revved up when 00ps got all "So what if it's a joke? He's right!"
Then there was no need to get revved up, cause that's not what I said. I don't know why your panties are all atwist.
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:27 (nineteen years ago) link
The thing about "memorable melodies that stick in your head" being the criteria for one genre being preferable to another would seem to lead straight to vocal jazz standards and Broadway showtunes and honky tonk country before it would lead to rock and roll. So I tend to think that "melody" is a red herring when rockists (troll rockists, straw man rockists, any old rockists really) bring it up.
― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link
(fwiw, i listen to very little rock)
― 00ps, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link
sure. and why shouldnt they?
― :| (....), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― teodoro fuglsaenger, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link
No way does either of these musical genres represent "melody" more than rock or stick in one's head longer than a rock song. "Troll" and "straw man" are two terms that need to be outlawed online, for they have gone way beyond "use other words, please."
― Milton, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link
No, the pattern being "I've seen this piece verbatim elsewhere, and besides he hasn't made a single post after his original one, so clearly he either doesn't really exist or he's posted not to have a discussion, but to get people riled up. So let's not give him what he wants."
I'm not belittling his intelligence because he doesn't toe the party line; I'm belittling his intelligence because he has little intelligence.
And once again, I'm treating him like he's a real person. So I'll stop now.
I should've divided those two sentences up into two separate quotes. Because you have said both of those things.
As for us "smug mofos" "stifling debate," how many posts are on this thread? How many threads are on ILM? Looks like a debate, thousands of them, to me.
I'll say it again: If this person is real, which I don't think he is, he said "All your favorite music is inferior to mine." That's not an invitation to a genuine debate, and you shouldn't be surprised that he didn't get one.
― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:41 (nineteen years ago) link
This might be the stupidest post I've ever seen on ILX.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 January 2005 20:47 (nineteen years ago) link
Thank you!
― Milton, a man who genuinely cares, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 14 January 2005 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link
Which of these things is REALLY, TRULY, WITHOUT QUESTION, the best?
― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 14 January 2005 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 14 January 2005 21:25 (nineteen years ago) link
hey brain jones you is full of SHIT (but not as full of shit as the real brian jones must be by now haha)! what you call rock n roll is fag shit. kurt cabin nirvina is that youre idea of rock? screaming no tunes and the words are all fuck cunt kill myself hairspray. you know noting of REAL rockaroll in other words the one and only KING that is ELVIS and thats why hes number one top of the pop 27 years after he's gone because its REAL rock a roll REAL music who can SING not like your pop idle on parade shit you get now he is FOREVER THE ONE AND ONLY KING ELVIS
-- Aaron Garon (aaron.garo...), January 14th, 2005 8:39 AM. (link)
rockaroll!
― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 14 January 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 14 January 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― LSD ARISTOCAT (ex machina), Friday, 14 January 2005 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 14 January 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link
Frisky colts, hands (paws?! hooves?!) down. Their cuteness is much more organic and exhibited with genuinely melodic emotion. Whereas adorable puppies, for example, seem to sample their cuteness from other creatures. And enchanting kittens and playful piglets don't even use real instruments.
― Lingbertt, Friday, 14 January 2005 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― milton parker (Jon L), Friday, 14 January 2005 23:27 (nineteen years ago) link
Okeedokee.
― Milton Perkins, Friday, 14 January 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago) link
Also it's good form to actually choose a login name so people can confirm when you're responding to threads you started under different names. Good luck!
― milton parker (Jon L), Friday, 14 January 2005 23:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Milton Perkins, Saturday, 15 January 2005 00:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― :| (....), Saturday, 15 January 2005 00:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― :| (....), Saturday, 15 January 2005 00:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― milton porker, Saturday, 15 January 2005 07:08 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.vanhalen-irc.com/vanhalen/images/dlr.jpg
― What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Saturday, 15 January 2005 07:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― milton porker, Saturday, 15 January 2005 07:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Saturday, 15 January 2005 09:03 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah, like fuck Andre 3000 listens to James Brown. He only listens to Nirvana. He probably likes Funk ironically.
― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Saturday, 15 January 2005 09:06 (nineteen years ago) link
i don't necessarily agree with the idea that rock is inherently better, but i'm really pining for the days when rock music ruled the charts.
― Poliopolice, Friday, 30 January 2015 19:12 (nine years ago) link
TMI
― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 30 January 2015 19:43 (nine years ago) link
10 years pass
― Devilock, Friday, 30 January 2015 19:47 (nine years ago) link
This week's top 10 albums include Fall Out Boy, Marilyn Manson and the Decembrists. Long Live Rock!
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Friday, 30 January 2015 19:49 (nine years ago) link
it's telling that all those bands have been around for a long while.
― Poliopolice, Friday, 30 January 2015 19:57 (nine years ago) link
And also that the Decemberists are not rock.
― everything, Friday, 30 January 2015 20:04 (nine years ago) link
more like book
― Evan, Friday, 30 January 2015 20:10 (nine years ago) link
more like a ponderous tome
― Poliopolice, Friday, 30 January 2015 20:15 (nine years ago) link