sarcasm, right?
― Mark G, Monday, 21 July 2008 10:53 (fifteen years ago) link
I CAN'T TELL ANY MORE
― aldo, Monday, 21 July 2008 10:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Britpop did change everything, inasmuch as it made some people think a prerequisite for artistic success was a high chart position.
But it gave us some good bands, too.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 21 July 2008 12:25 (fifteen years ago) link
it made some people think a prerequisite for artistic success was a high chart position
pretty sure this was a widely held belief before 'wake up boo!'
― blueski, Monday, 21 July 2008 12:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Yes, but not in the circles that bands like, I dunno, The Boo Radleys operated in, really. "Britpop changed everything" isn't especially out of place in the context of the piece, which admittedly I don't really see the point of
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 21 July 2008 13:07 (fifteen years ago) link
The piece is an excuse to have a go at this year's crop of wholly forgettable haircut bands. But really, i'm not sure they're much more punchworthy than last year's, or (probably) 1984's.
Yes, but not in the circles that bands like, I dunno, The Boo Radleys operated in, really.
Exactly. appearing in the top 40 was, i think, such a rare shock for people like, say, Ride, that it never figured in their game plan (if indeed they actually ever had one). But then the more nakedly avaricious corners of Britpop somehow contrived to make it weird *not* to aim for a Top 20 hit.
This has been covered elsewhere, I'm sure.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 21 July 2008 13:18 (fifteen years ago) link
"now known by some" = "I just made it up."
I think it was also the Independent that did a review which was entitled "The Vietnam War was a horrific experience - but it did give birth to some cool soul tunes."
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 21 July 2008 13:33 (fifteen years ago) link
Is grindie a genre?
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Monday, 21 July 2008 13:34 (fifteen years ago) link
It's a semi-decent piece. It rather shoots itself in the foot by rose-tinting the likes of The Verve, who were just as conniving in terms of arranging success as anyone else around the same era, and who didn't appeal to refined cultural aesthetes anywhere near as much, at their peak, as they appealed to lunk-headed beer-soaked morons, same as any big rock band, certainly post Oasis and probably ever.
I also think the etymology of the term indie causes severe wrong-headedness; Scouting For Girls & The Kooks are not in any way related to what indie was in 77 or 86 or even 95 - they're the modern day equivalent of Kajagoogoo or something, dressed up for a 00s audience rather than an 80s audience. I don't think there's any pretense towards alternative or oppositional or creative, and that interview Kooks kid did a while ago where he said "I just want to write pop songs that make girls dance, and I'm damn good at that" totally confirmed that. Keane, as I've said before, I could imagine possibly doing a Japan or a Talk Talk, but The Fratellis, The Pigeon Detectives, etcetera... there are almost certainly innumerable one-or-two-or-three hit wonders from 1983 or 1996 that no one remembers, and that's what they are.
So yes, a vaguely interesting read and not offensive, but (to an ILM mind) pretty directionless - "hmph, bad bands have always been bad, whether they've got a guitar or a synthesizer or whatever"; however, this piece wasn't written for ILM minds; it was written for casual music fans who are a bit dissatisfied with haircut indie but who aren't smart enough to realise fully on their own that haircut indie and its vague signifiers of rock authenticity is not for them because it's not rock or authentic or whatever it is that they DO want.
― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 21 July 2008 13:36 (fifteen years ago) link
someone tell Conor Mctwatnicholas at NME the game is over
NME.COM's possible Mercury Music Prize contenders include:
http://tinyurl.com/5mhvvx
Babyshambles The Enemy The Pigeon Detectives The Wombats Ting Tings
Last year Conor was a Mercury Prize judge - hence the nomination of The View
― djmartian, Monday, 21 July 2008 13:57 (fifteen years ago) link
I bet there are kids right now saying the same shit about indie that I said about "alternative" back in the 90s. how can it be alternative when its the mainstream kind-of music. huhh??? answer me that.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:00 (fifteen years ago) link
"alternative" back in the 90s. Do you mean crap like: Pearl Jam and The Stereophonics
― djmartian, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:01 (fifteen years ago) link
"Mctwatnicholas" has potential for reuse
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:02 (fifteen years ago) link
alternative was a term thrown around for everything back then, kind-of like indie now (indie is the mainstream mass youth culture thing at the moment). I go back to my shitty suburban hometown and I see kids riding beater fixed gears and wearing skinny jeans skateboarding down main street probably listening to Of Montreal or some shit.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:04 (fifteen years ago) link
if Keane do a Talk Talk i will rip off my own goolies and eat them onstage at the Royal Festival Hall
Conor McN's actual name is "Zach Brash"
― Just got offed, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:05 (fifteen years ago) link
burt_stanton and djmartian kicking game together = this thread's going place
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:06 (fifteen years ago) link
it's not going anywhere because Of Montreal are as irrelevant in the UK as school kids eating peanut butter sandwiches and hersey's chocolate bars
― djmartian, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:13 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah, this is US centric. I'll even throw in a Dinosaur Jr. reference to make the irrelevance complete.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:15 (fifteen years ago) link
Hey, I've been writing letters to Nestle to get them to start making Hear'say chocolate bars again for months now
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:17 (fifteen years ago) link
Scouting For Girls & The Kooks are not in any way related to what indie was in 77 or 86 or even 95 - they're the modern day equivalent of Kajagoogoo or something
You mean, they have a fanbase largely consisting of 12-year-old girls??
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Or maybe it was a return back to the golden days of English pop dominance in the 60s (First English invasion, culminating in twee psychedelia) and 80s (Synthpop, New Romantics) where there was no opposition between being artistically pretentious and at the same time aiming for the charts?
The way I see it, appealing to the somewhat snobby hipsters and the hit-buying kids at the same time, and then making it into the historic canon of popular music/rock is sort of the ultimate achievement a popular music artist/group can manage. The was exactly what The Beatles, Kinks and Who managed to do, and also what the 80s New Romantic acts set out to do (and succeeded, according to those of us who have no fear of synths).
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
If there's one thing I associate with Oasis, Cast, and Space, it's the idea of being artistically pretentious.
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:37 (fifteen years ago) link
Geir tell us about all the new romantic bands who made it into the historic canon of popular music/rock - I am on tenterhooks
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:40 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF8XgRgyy48
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:41 (fifteen years ago) link
Depeche Mode and Soft Cell both did that, as arguably did Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:42 (fifteen years ago) link
"Be Here Now" is pretentious as fuck. Only they didn't live up to what they set out to do there. And Blur and Suede were definitely pretentious, as have Coldplay been at least from their second album too.
Not too certain about Spandau Ballet, but definitely ABC, Human League and Scritti Politti. "Lexicon Of Love" and "Dare" both repeatedly make it into those best albums of all time polls. OMD's "Architecture and Morality" is also on its way there. Of course those will never be accepted by the baby boomers, but they are not alone in defining the canon. At least not the 1980 onwards part of it.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:48 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^this is relatively OTM as Geir goes.
― Just got offed, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:49 (fifteen years ago) link
yes, add all of those to the list.
sort-of fair comment re oasis, but i doubt they were thinking "haha, now's our chance to make a crazy freewheeling experimental opus and sneak it to the top of the hit parade" as much as "pass the gak, our kid".
(xpost to geir)
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:51 (fifteen years ago) link
Summing up the Oasis oeuvre in a nutshell there!
― Neil S, Monday, 21 July 2008 14:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Franz, on the other hand, are a good modern example of "appealing to the somewhat snobby hipsters and the hit-buying kids at the same time". It seems to come down to a lack of condescension and pride in one's intelligence, I think.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 21 July 2008 15:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Kinda think that you have to have a pretty extensive idea of 'canon' if you want to include all the new romantic era bands mentioned there (none of which I have strong feelings about either way), however I would not be sorry if the words canon or pretentious were struck from the dictionary so I'm regretting saying anything now
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 21 July 2008 15:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Basically they were high on Coke, which is known to make people pretentious (and shit....). And they have always wanted to make the top of the charts. Only without selling out in a teenybopper/boyband/pop way.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 18:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Brits use the word "indie" now like Americans used the word "alternative" in the 90s, right?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 21 July 2008 18:56 (fifteen years ago) link
that's the impression that i get
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 21 July 2008 18:58 (fifteen years ago) link
[/i]mightymightybosstones[/i]
Not entirely. Americans in the 90s would define Oasis as alternative while there is no way that any Brit (or European for that matter) would define Dave Matthews Band or Hootie & The Blowfish as indie.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:00 (fifteen years ago) link
DMB and "Hootie" weren't described as alternative here. That was for shit like the Gin Blossoms and whatever 3rd wave Gin Blossoms band came out.
― burt_stanton, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:03 (fifteen years ago) link
This usage of "indie" in the UK dates back to the early 90s if not earlier, it is kind of an equivalent to the US "alternative" - not a new thing at all.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:06 (fifteen years ago) link
The indie lists did actually start in the early 80s didn't they? Or possibly even earlier?
Anyway, "indie" as a term for a musical genre was used for stuff like The Smiths as early as 1983-84. That is way before Britpop.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:09 (fifteen years ago) link
It's not an exact parallel Whiney, but it works as a basic rule of thumb yeah
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:10 (fifteen years ago) link
The "Indie Chart" started in 1980, but it did actually mean independent label music then. I don't know exactly when the word "indie" became a musical genre, tbh.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:11 (fifteen years ago) link
Those acts were probably slightly more leftfield than the Britpoppers though. In a way the original poster is right that Britpop was a form of pop rather than indie. But the bands grew out of the indie scene and were also musically influenced by indie. Sometimes even very indie, but the addition of production values and catchy choruses meant that it probably wasn't right to describe them as indie anymore.
However, if Oasis and Blur were indie in the mid 90s, then The Kooks and Coldplay are today too.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:11 (fifteen years ago) link
To me the notion of indie doesn't fit with the idea of genre as a sonic signifier very well at all. It's more an aesthetic politics, really, which means it's bound up in certain kinds of musical practices, institutions, discourses, etc., which better captures the broad spectrum of sounds that could all be classed as "indie." To say it's about the music somewhat ironically misses the point.
― tvdisko, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:20 (fifteen years ago) link
No shit.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link
When I was in England I saw some TV channel with like the Top 100 indie videos evar! And the top 10 was like 8 Oasis videos and Blur.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:32 (fifteen years ago) link
indie punk, baeleric funk, even if it's old junk....
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 21 July 2008 19:32 (fifteen years ago) link
But most contemporary genres are defined to a similar degree by their aesthetic politics. I'm thinking specifically of rap, metal and punk, especially WRT the maze of subgenres each inspires, but I suspect the same is true of every musical genre that isn't simply "pop". Like indie, these all have recognizable sonic signifiers, but we can't make any real sense of them without taking into account the "musical practices, institutions, discourses, etc." on which they're predicated.
So, what you've said doesn't seem to mean anything. We can examine indie as a sonic pallette or as an "aesthetic politics" -- just as we can with any musical genre.
― contenderizer, Tuesday, 22 July 2008 20:29 (fifteen years ago) link
why did i just waste 3 minutes reading this
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 15:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Welcome to the LBZC, son
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 15:53 (fifteen years ago) link
Does "indie" mean anything these days? If so, what?
― Poliopolice, Wednesday, 18 March 2015 15:08 (nine years ago) link
a demographic
― Evan, Wednesday, 18 March 2015 15:10 (nine years ago) link
dead as a doornail. needs to re-invent itself desperately. punk could be considered more indie than indie is in 2015
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 18 March 2015 17:13 (nine years ago) link
http://www.picgifs.com/clip-art/entertainment/bingo/clip-art-bingo-442587.jpg
― daed bod (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 18 March 2015 17:30 (nine years ago) link
it's weird; it seems like 'indie' has become another word for 'rock'
― Poliopolice, Wednesday, 25 March 2015 23:04 (nine years ago) link
it's rock without the rock
― swae lee is the sremmurd for rae dad (crüt), Wednesday, 25 March 2015 23:21 (nine years ago) link
gonna indie round the clock tonite
― don't ask me why i posted this (electricsound), Wednesday, 25 March 2015 23:28 (nine years ago) link
The Unbearable Whiteness of Indie
― Robert Earl Hughes (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 26 March 2015 02:06 (nine years ago) link
Indie dream died for me once I realized there was always going to be non musicians making money off and controlling music outout at any scale from your major label down to the town scenesters with all the expendable cash.
Basically it is all a giant popularity contest anyways so just do whatever you want
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 26 March 2015 02:24 (nine years ago) link
things i'm tired of:
the dream pop stuff with the beats
the revival of every well-known genre from 20 years ago
not playing your instrument
― hackshaw, Thursday, 26 March 2015 06:14 (nine years ago) link
death to epiphany core
― flappy bird (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 26 March 2015 06:37 (nine years ago) link
Epiphone core?
― the_ecuador_three, Thursday, 26 March 2015 10:53 (nine years ago) link
Indiestars, the broke-ass rockstars.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 26 March 2015 22:50 (nine years ago) link
I read this, and felt trolled
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 March 2015 22:55 (nine years ago) link
Jesus Christ, that article
― Your Ribs are My Ladder, Thursday, 26 March 2015 23:38 (nine years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/emma-jackson/sexism-in-music_b_8330178.html
― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 19 October 2015 16:33 (eight years ago) link