UTOPIA: C4's dark drama featuring torture, conspiracies and a comic book

I don't think we've been shown any clear clues that JH is *bad*, just that she's pretty fucked up (not surprising if you believe she's been on the run since age 4). But I fully expect each episode to dump new and unforeseeable twists on us.

OK:

The Tramp is at the house of the guy in the beginning who posts issue 2 then kills himself (which the CIA confirm they know). The hitman turns up at the bit of road where the guy killed himself then speaks into his phone and appears to get another location. Although if he's just following blindly (as Jessica tells Ian) is there even anyone at the other end of the phone?

Jessica promises Wilson "they" are picking up his dad when she first turns up at the house. We're supposed to think that means taking him to safety (as does Becky, possibly, when she looks him up on the internet), but what if she actually does keep her promise and "they" are taking him back home to kill him in a faked botched burglary (which is what Becky later does to the family)?

When Jessica tells them about the Soviets and the Network, Ian asks why that's important and Jessica says that's who's after them. She never specifies which side.

Jessica asks Ian if he has the manuscript (NB we have not been shown her telling him of the link between the Soviets/The Network and Utopia although obviously she could have done without us seeing) as if she has no idea where it is, but thinks it's possible he has it. So she's connected enough to know personal things about Wilson (the invisible man) and where Becky lives but not that the guy was thrown off the roof before they were all supposed to meet? It seems weird she isn't able to make that connection, or maybe she's several steps ahead and is being deliberately disingenuous?

"I hack airline companies looking for people on holiday". When does she find time to do this if she thinks the first safe house can be compromised at any point? Not saying it's a thing, but we never see her with a computer at any point especially not 'invisibly' so if someone was looking for her she'd be really easy to find if you knew that was her MO.

When Jessica tells the story of Karvell she said he went mad and was going to be killed but was smuggled out. She then says she was smuggled out with him having previously been held hostage to keep him working. Part of this smacks of a daughter not wanting to think of her dad doing wrong (and having to be forced to keep on doing bad things) being a background note in a cover story to me. Also she was smuggled out with him "when I was 4. I've been on the run ever since." Firstly, having gone to the effort of smuggling the pair of them out, you'd think whoever did it would do the same sort of thing for her (new identity, false family etc) rather than dump her. I appreciate her 'on the run' is not supposed to be literally since she was 4, but from what age then? When she found out who her real father was? If so, all her knowledge about Karvell and hospital/writing Utopia is received wisdom and not her own memories so could either be planted false memories or just a cover story. Also note the concept of being smuggled out from the inside and good bad guys introduces the idea of double agents into the overall plot.

There's something about the way Jessica looks at Becky as she takes Ian out to trace the comic which makes me think she knows the family are coming back or she sends a fake family back to see how Becky reacts and to see if she's (or make her) ready. This would tie in with the Hitman being her cleanup crew. On top of this, Jessica and Ian go somewhere after the torture and stay out overnight. Why? If you've got a blind man and someone you think isn't ready in your safe house surely you'd try and get back as soon as you can? We know the publisher's house isn't far because they get there in clear daylight. What's the smash of glass when Becky is in the bath that alerts her to the fact the family are letting themselves in with their own keys? Jessica has set up the booby trap but to the door - and the door isn't open by the time Becky is downstairs with a towel on pointing a gun at them. After Jessica and Ian get back, Jessica isn't surprised at all by the family in the garage and has already set up a new safe house. She has written down the address and gives it to Becky - when did she have time to do this if she was with Ian?

Why does Jessica take Ian to the publisher's house with the fake widow when she must know he's dead? If he posted the comic to the dealer in Scotland then killed himself it went to Scotland by mail, then back to London, then changed hands at least once. On that basis he's been dead for at least a week - which, as with the death of the guy thrown off the building, you'd think she'd know. Especially if she's online all the time establishing future safe houses and keeping track of Becky, Ian and Wilson (given Becky is able to find out about Wilson's dad's death in seconds). After all, she always knew his name and address so why go backwards to somewhere you know it isn't when you know as much as he knew about where he sent it? She clubs the fake widow because "police turn up asking to see your dead husband and you don't ask why?" Well, actually, the fake widow answers everything she asks so she has no reason to suspect. My guess is that she knows and this is some kind of test for Ian. "That's how they work. They have people high up who get their drones to do their work for them." This is designed to desensitise Ian to the CIA agent, that she doesn't matter, so he can accept torture and (maybe) murder. After all, the next time we see him he's soaking her with water so she can be threatened with electrocution.

The hitman turns up at the publishers because (he claims) the CIA woman didn't phone in. This is potentially just a cover on his part to get her trust, but there are a couple of problems with this. If he didn't know she was tied up, because someone told him, then it's just a coincidence, which feels wrong. And if someone told him, why kill her? And why didn't Jessica? (fake burglary and all that?)

When Becky looks up Wilson's dad he was shot at 4:30pm and neighbours alerted the police to "a loud bang" (singular) yet his dad was supposedly shot in the face and chest (i.e. multiple shots). So the bang they hear which calls the police is Wilson shooting the hitman/torturer? Yet nobody sees Becky's car pulling away? The news story also says Wilson is missing. At this point Wilson tells Becky that Grant has it.

The Tramp's conversation with Jessica appears to reveal nothing deeper other than at the end when he says "I'm on your side. I'm one of them." One of who? I thought (and even earlier in the same conversation) they were all loners. Now, we know he was a scientist at the Network and so therefore "them" could, and probably does, refer to the people who smuggled out Karvell and Jessica but those same people abandoned her which is why she's been on the run 'since she was 4'. And the Tramp recognises her, so has seen her as an adult. So either their paths have crossed (and you'd wonder why, since it's only the new work on Janus that's made the manuscript important) meaning she isn't much cop at covering her tracks after all (leading to the question of how she's managed to do it for so many years) or she was an adult when she left "them". On another listen he said he found out there was a part two when Karvell told him after he visited him in hospital. Then says he went to the hospital in the first place to get part two. Both can't be true. There's also significance in the name of the project. Janus. Two-faced. Another hint that nobody is what they seem? On a side note, by now Ian is inured enough to go and steal a car while Jessica kills the tramp. Yes, he argues with her about it but when she explains she says "why are you being so odd?" The way she says it makes me think she thinks he's an agent of somebody.

When James Fox asks Not Jamie "what do you want it for?" about the vaccine he uses exactly the same cadence as when Jessica asked the Tramp "what did you want it for" about issue 2.

When Becky uses the phone at the end, she says "It's me. The manuscript exists. The boy knows where it is." Doesn't sound like it's a casual phone call to her supervisor.

So no smoking gun about Jessica, but too much that doesn't add up. I would quite happily think I'm reading too much into this, but it's deliberately designed to be a plot about people sucked into a conspiracy that's too complex for them to grasp, and has a viral site where you try and find out as much as you can about the Utopia experiments before "they" catch you. I think you're supposed to analyse it and find the depth of the conspiracy. And that as an alternate reading, if you just see/hear the dialogue once and are in it (like Ian) you see the face value only.

Or I could just be a mentalist.

Actually, I've spotted a mistake in what I've typed there. I could have sworn Jessica told Ian about the hitman being a rogue agent but she completely fails to. I'm not even sure where I got that idea from.

Jessica has set up the booby trap but to the door - and the door isn't open by the time Becky is downstairs with a towel on pointing a gun at them.

I thought she said it was a tripwire in the garden? Didn't watch as closely as you did though.

I'm a bit sceptical that all these off-notes are truly meaningful and not just lazy writing. I've been burned too many times before by trusting that the writers are in control of every detail.

Yes, I worry that I'm expecting too much of the writer of Matilda The Musical.

I'm a bit sceptical that all these off-notes are truly meaningful and not just lazy writing.

This is totally what the vast majority of them are. And some of them aren't even 'lazy' but 'minorly unlikely', when as everyone knows, reality is more unlikely than most fiction. The rest are psychological motivations which seem 'wrong' to aldo, which is a completely subjective thing. I'm fairly sure if he scrutinised my actions versus my words he'd find my backstory incredibly sketchy.

defo

If the Jamie guy weren't so dumb he might at some point have asked himself how the hell anyone knows for sure it was him who got the Russian prostitute pregnant.

So the big mystery then is where Jessica and Ian go to after the interrogation of the CIA agent, and why. They leave the house in the afternoon and aren't seen again until the following afternoon when they meet The Tramp. Since he's only on foot, and we know he was at the publisher's house, he can't be sufficiently far to justify an overnight journey (especially since they get back to the house quickly after killing him) and there's a scene between Becky & Wilson that directly draws the viewers' attention to them not coming back at night and how odd it is, so it's not just a writing omission.

That scene is there to amp up the tension, emphasise Becky's sexual jealousy, contrast the emotional states of the pairs of characters and give B&W a plausible amount of time to start breaking Jessica's rules, though? It's not a writing omission, it's a narrative ploy.

Do we have any proof that Anya (sp?) is actually pregnant? Though I guess if she was framed for the murder (but was that TV footage real?), then she's hardly in on the plot.

odd that the pharma goons knew exactly when to turn on the TV.

just watched e2. some of the analysis upthread is wild. this tv show is not going to be complex. the whole "where is jessica hyde" thing is enough for me to be 100 per cent positive she will be a "good" character throughout.

So why would she be dropping the pretence so easily in front of him? This arc is much more easily explained by her testing his mettle and feeling that he can deal with adapting to the brutality of his new reality.

exactly right. the next scene was becky being told she did the right thing by tying up the family, completely hammered home as a way of showing she's adapting where her pal isn't.

this show is really silly and just weighed down with cliché after cliché, it reminds me of Killer Net, but has the same pulpy appeal. anyone recall that show?

YOU FLAMED ME!

the whole "where is jessica hyde" thing is enough for me to be 100 per cent positive she will be a "good" character throughout

Think it's more likely that both sides will turn out to be the bad guys with the comic book nerds in the middle of it. But yeah it's not exactly complex, enjoyable enough though although I thought the second episode really suffered from jettisoning a lot of the humour in the first ep.

btw jessica hyde is hot

would go on crime spree with

"She can throttle my hobo any day" etc etc.

Am I missing something about vaccines? This whole "I-I-I-I, uh, ne-need a sample of the vaccine" stuff -- you've just bought a shitton of it, pop to Boots.

all a bit one note this week.

Select cuts from the soundtrack: http://cristobaltapiadeveer.bandcamp.com/album/utopia-coming-soon

I might buy that. Best soundtrack on TV

Not that there's a lot of competition

Enjoying the Not Jamie stuff the most, although "such a shame to see her raped... brutally... later this week..." was pretty grim.

As good as outright confirmation Becky is an agent - her scene with Grant where she tends to his ankle is pretty much exactly the same as when Jessica gets him drunk then plays mother to him, plus she stumble "I need the manuscript/we need the manuscript".

So, Steven Rea and the Hitman are on the same side, but are Jessica and the Hitman? After the Karvell was a Nazi revelation, there's something odd about the says "how close are we to Utopia?" to Grant that makes me think she WANTS the eugenics experiment brought forward.

Weirdest though is when the Hitman doesn't shoot Jessica because he appears to think she's not her. That would tie into the triple agent theory?

Who's the guy with the gun they meet in the church that the MI5 woman shoots? He's at the house before they have a chance for the phone call to alert where they are, so has Jessica sent him there (since she's the only{?} other person who knows where they are)?

enjoyable crap is the kindest way to describe this show.

Guy in the church who Geraldine James shoots is another MI5 agent. As soon as the call was intercepted they sent their man in, hence the lone wolf MI5 agent Geraldine James telling them to get out.

They don't have time to send a man in, surely? Jessica (and the incident with the family) teaches them they have to be ready to move in a minute or so, and Geraldine James tells them to leave straight away. Let's be generous and say they leave within 10 minutes - MI5 have someone close enough that can get to a remote house and hide in that time? Not very likely.

(Although I concede it could just be an overused tv trope written badly)

Weirdest though is when the Hitman doesn't shoot Jessica because he appears to think she's not her

I've been assuming that Becky is actually Jessica Hyde and the other woman we've been seeing is some kind of creepy farmed impostor.

I agree that this is mostly enjoyable crap although the piling on of sociopathic bleakness on top of sociopathic bleakness and shadowy conspiracy on top of shadowy conspiracy means that when the stakes are raised you don't really feel it. Even when Kill List Guy went into the school there was a feeling of "oh he's just killed more people, onto the next scene" and that was a fucking school massacre.

The leads don't help. Only the Jamie guy really gives a sense of being way over his head. Becky and Wilson and Not Curtis mostly come across as mildly inconvenienced by the fact that their lives are potentially in ruins and they're on the run from a shadowy organisation that wants to kill them.

That's what makes me think they're all possibly double agents. I kind of don't want to think that it's all just bad writing and acting just yet.

Watched eps 2 and 3 earlier in the afternoon on the sofa hungover. Best way to watch; good, foolish fun. I really like this type of conspiracy mystery nonsense. Reminds me of House Of Leaves somehow. And feels very much like Chris Morris's Jam on occasion. I guess that's the soundtrack someone pointed to above. I like the direction, the bright vivid colours. I bet it trails of and annoys me in the end when all the loose ends are tied up though.

I think he didn't shoot her because he's suddenly cold-hitman-starts-to-question and also looking for answers about his past. Jessica is a link to the past (and quasi-sister if he feels himself "created" by her father) and so even though she says she doesn't remember him, he decides not to kill her.

Asking where she is as he leaves I read as him saying "I'm just going to say you weren't here and I'm still looking for you" xp

May not happen but there are certainly signals that Jessica and Arby might both be products of the same program.

genuinely think Alice is one of their creepy little brainwashed kids.

I think we're supposed to doubt every character. It seemed to start to unravel a little tonight - I didn't get where the race thing came into their conclusions about the vaccine. Massive leap there that I missed.

How many episodes of this are there btw?

There was a bit in the previous episode where it was revealed that the Prof who wrote the comic was a massive Nazi and was interested in eugenics, hence the race thing this week.

I feel like they're yanking my chain by making the show so pretty but full of torture and murder

six episodes is it?

apparently i am totally desensitized to (fictional) murder, torture can fuck off but fortunately they haven't returned to the giddy heights of the first episode.

the lethal vaccine + food chain reveal was implausibly speedy but i'm sure there's a switcheroo or two coming. yeah this isn't the most tightly plotted or original story but it looks and sounds amazing.

I searched the hashtag on Twitter last night and it was great to see so many people, mostly young, getting their minds blown by this. I've seen enough paranoid thrillers not to be startled when someone says "You have no idea what these people are capable of" but it seems to be striking a huge chord with teenagers. The conspiracy's outlandishly huge and too many scenes rely on guns pointed at heads but, like ledge says, it looks and sounds brilliant and I like the dearth of big names in the cast. The woman who plays Jessica Hyde is apparently big in Irish theatre but hasn't done much TV so I see her as her character rather than thinking, oh, her again. And the character of Arby is fascinating - a ruthless killer slowly regressing to a damaged child. I miss the humour of the first episode though.

i missed the first episode (and the 4seven repeat) and home network isn't up to 4od. guess i have to wait for them to repeat the entire thing.

Particularly liked the "RB...'Raisin Boy'" exchange last night, produced a very hollow chuckle from this viewer.

best chuckle last night was the scientist complaining that the press ruined his life by telling the world that he like prostitutes and cocaine : 'i mean it was true, i do like prostitutes and cocaine, but they didn't have to tell everyone'

About to watch ep 4 but as a side note to gyac's observation about Alice:

I just assumed Alice was the kid at school who might talk to random people that turn up, but the way her mum behaved in the first two eps was just weird. In ep 2, when Danny breaks in and spends the night in Alice's room he gets disturbed and in the morning because Alice's mum shouts that it's time to get ready and leave. Danny then just leaves through the door and up the corridor that she's apparently in with no alarm, no shouts and no checking he's not being seen. Then in ep 3, when Alice is being told by the police they know about Danny and Arby turns up etc, her mum is calm as you like throughout. She's just found out a kid that cold-bloodedly murdered a school of other children was skulking about in her house the other night. Her reaction is just "Pff. No biggie. Where's the manuscript?"

Is it just me that thinks that's a bit odd? (Rhetorical, I know, as the answer is obviously yes)

I still think there's a reveal to come where Jessica/Not Jessica is shown to share the Nazi opinions of Karvell (whether he's her father or not). The scene where she gets Danny drunk has her (imo) wanting the Utopia to come after the virus is released.

The series is definitely at its worst when moving chunks of plot around. Otherwise, still fun.

Biggest plot hole this week (besides the food chain revelation): Why didn't the Network tail civil servant guy to make sure he didn't go near the medical lab?

Speculation: Did Jessica pass something on to Ian when she kissed him?

Why does a sterilisation contagion need to be hereditary? Other than that, great episode.

This is still holding together imo (to my surprise). Arby/RB/Piotr's character was so good this week. Brother-sister revelation not really a surprise, nor that Janus is a Watchmen-like plot to save humanity by hurting it (or maybe Letts was lying/doesn't know the truth?).

Revelations to come: If Janus affects 95% of people, which 5% are not affected? We still don't know what Jessica's motivation is. Also unclear what Dugdale will do - did he call the police because he thinks he has negotiated peace with the Network and his wife, or because he knew he was being watched and needed to allay suspicions? As for Mr. Rabbit's identity, I'd guess he's either Carville (and still alive?) or he doesn't exist.

Plot-holes or not-holes: Did Letts say that Deal's was a test to see whether they could introduce hereditary changes, and the change they want to introduce now is sterility? [xp - started writing this an hour ago] How did the gang get Milner's address?

why would the doctor guy be all "oh i need to be rich, being old in the future will be hell" when he is like easily 50, at least, and so there'd be plenty of young people around. does it even make sense that with no babies nobody would bother to care for the old? surely the reverse is true?

Like initially at least it's hard to see how he'd be affected.

Heh, good catch. The way around it might have been to have him say "The world is going to go through a massive upheaval and I need to stockpile cash to make sure I'm buffered from the chaos".

I just think he's too old to have those concerns. What would practically be different that would mean the elderly would be left to die while there were still as many adults as always (giving him a 25 year life expectancy and that's generous)

Surely efforts to prolong lifespan would be concentrated more in that world, while viable.

Can't believe I'm wasting mindspace on this.

Without Neil Maskell as the wheezy psychopath this remake cannot possibly
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/hbo-utopia/images/4/4c/Arby.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140218210738be worth watching.

Assuming Christopher Denham in the Amazon remake is playing the same role as that guy (wikipedia says yes), he's sufficiently creepy imo. I haven't finished this one's first season yet, but I get the impression this one's dialed up the grimness and cast aside the humor nearly altogether.

Downloaded the UK original today, time to finally set up a home Plex again.

Have been watching this! The original is one of the best things I ever saw, series 2 falls off a lot but still great (70s flashback episode is one of my favourite episodes of tv ever). This adaptation is interesting? Feels a bit too on the nose at times, tonally very different and obviously lacking the colour palette/spooky score, but it’s pretty fucked up! Interested in keeping watching all the same.

Christopher Denham btw is very creepy, but in a wholly American way, and he’s not Neil Maskey but it’s a good take on the character.

Suspect that if I already feel Gillian Flynn's an overrated hack then this retread of a better show will not persuade me otherwise.

gyac's critical support making me consider watching this - I too think the first season is amazing and the second season is half amazing/half pointless.

It is critical yeah, it’s a very different beast but interesting if you loved the original as much as I do. We did laugh at the warning before of the episodes that it doesn’t represent a real pandemic, lol. Very timely in terms of the conspiratorial times we live in.

Not having seen the original, the tone of this American version immediately reminded me of the first season of Orphan Black. Had zero clue what would happen in the next five minutes, but couldn't wait to find out. Except with bigger stakes and more explicit body horror (something I can't really cope with too well). Thankfully, those scenes are short and easy to turn away from.

Linking the same sequence in the original series so you can compare without spoiling it for anyone else.

The American one is gorier fwiw

Chris Denham directed a pretty good but hard to Google found-footage horror movie called Home Movie once upon a time.

I'm not gonna check this out though cause the original series was wildly overrated and this is apparently worse

Home Movie is great.

As for the show, I will refrain from being 'that guy' who dips into a thread and shits all over the topic of discussion.

Also anyone who likes Dennis Kelly’s work should be watching The Third Day, which is being dribbled out an episode a week and features gorgeous visuals and a Cristobal Tapia de Veer score like Utopia.

I already feel Gillian Flynn's an overrated hack then this retread of a better show will not persuade me otherwise.

I loved Gone Girl - the movie, anyway - but yeah everything else she's touched not so hot.

The reboot has brought some fans of the original out of the woodwork, and one scanned the rare The Utopia Experiments graphic novel🕸 produced for the original in its entirety.