Not if tipping isnt part of your 'paycheck' xp
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
I'm okay with tipping in Amurrica. Restaurants would likely pay less per hour than a big part of their waitstaff makes now.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:37 (eleven years ago) link
service workers who get tipped should be getting regular paychecks instead
this, but since they don't (and they never will) tipping should be expanded as a practice as much as possible. because service jobs suck. I am also one of those people who think the people with the worst jobs (janitors, teachers, ditch diggers, etc.) should be the highest paid
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
I always tip my ditch digger
― iatee, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
I guess the idea in the US is that the customer is in a better position to determine the quality of the service in a busy restaurant than management. However for the most part customers are fucking idiots who should not be determining how much a human being earns doing their job. If a waiter does a terrible job, let the consequences work like they do in almost every other industry; loudmouthed customers can complain if they're unhappy.
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
framing it like "tipping is stupid" rather than "it being legal to pay service workers less than minimum wage is stupid" just made dmac look like a typical non-tipper
i got into a huge argument with an (american!) friend of mine whose father never tipped because "you don't tip teachers, why tip waiters", and he wouldn't believe me when i told him waiters make as little as $2 and change hourly. he wasn't having any of it.
― #guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
i don't really think of tipping as a correction to a substandard wage. not all people working in the service industry make awful wages but i wouldn't devalue their tip if i knew they were well-paid, and i would think that someone who did was being perverse. i like tipping, feels gentlemanly or something
― flopson, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy OTM.
― Gollum: "Hot, Ready and Smeagol!" (Phil D.), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
Paychecks should compensate workers, including service workers, which means they def ought to be higher in the USA than they currently are for almost every job, but esp restaurant jobs. tips should still happen on top of those higher paychecks, but more as a thanks for good service than a social obligation and economic necessity.
― Aimless, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
so yeah waiters should be making a real minimum wage but also minimum wage should be raised to actually reflect inflation over the past like four decades too
worth mentioning that service minimum wage has hardly been adjusted for inflation at all compared to normal minimum wage
― #guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
the argument i've used vs vocal non-tippers is like that of wearing a dark suit at a funeral. i know it's such a huuuge pain and you didn't like the guy much and you aren't legitimately that sad, but, fuck you, wear the suit
it's a comment box slam dunk!
― goole, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
"and they never will"
This isnt some crazy dream yknow
Xp zach, it was more a "the US system where the onus is on tips to make a living wage is appallingly dumb" which i hopefully expressed sufficiently well there for ya not to worry about my personal habits
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
there's some horse-cart business going on w/ tipping, since the practice of tipping was i believe justification for setting the minimum wage for those jobs lower than the min-wage generally
― goole, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:45 (eleven years ago) link
i guess the slamdunk case for tipping is that capitalism exploits all labor so why not keep that screwing as explicit as possible? everyone should only get paid in tips and the hard heels of capitalist boots.
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:45 (eleven years ago) link
this is kinda another subject but in a world where say the govt mandated $15/h wages for servers I think you'd see a ton of iPads (etc) in lower end restaurants doing more and more of the order-side work. we might regardless.
― iatee, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
wingtips imo
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
i'm really against tipping as this ugly practice that demeans everybody but if you offered the choice of "we're going to raise your salary and prices to compensate but that means you're going to get fully taxed on it" vs. "you can sneakily declare less tips than you actually got." no one's going to take #1.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
pay the poor buggers a basic wage and stop forcing them to behave like performing seals
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
surm to thread
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
eh people should probably pay their taxes
― iatee, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
what if we were like: "you can get paid the full value of your work but we will fire you and have an ipad robot do your job instead" OR "you can get paid shit and be grateful you have a job in 8% unemployment, serf," which do you think ppl would take?
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ghKbViy.jpg
― ❏❐❑❒ (gr8080), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
well it depends if they are a robot
The assumption that increasing to a living wage somehow stops tips dead has not rly been borne out in the first world, folks
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
I have an idea, we can write a law to make tipping progressive like taxes, when you go to a restaurant your tax bracket will be encoded into your credit card and your tip will be based on your tax rate
― 乒乓, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
people who generally need tips probably shouldn't pay taxes on it.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
I figure a waiter at per se will probably start clearing 6 figures then, even the busboys, but somebody who works at Golden Dragon's Empire Buffet will probably fail to clear $10k =(
if minimum wage became mandatory restaurants would just charge more for food like they do everywhere else in the world iirc
― #guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:53 (eleven years ago) link
To pay the wages of their staff? Jesus, the very fukn thought huh
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
Do you tip carpet cleaners?
― that Django got me Nuages (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
minimum wage is mandatory in CA I think. Still tipping going on. I think the only real way tipping can go away is if enough people agree to tip a constant amount regardless of service, and it became enough of a social expectation that it would be equivalent to a mandatory service charge.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
Having worked as a server in a high end restaurant for the last couple of years, I feel obliged to contribute to this topic. Servers definitely make out better under a tipping system than they would if you replaced tips with some kind of skill commensurate hourly wage. However, the truth is, if you actually replaced the tipping system with a skill commensurate hourly wage, almost nobody would bother to be a server. Cause for that kind of money, you could just do something easy and relatively stress free like retail or back of the house or like "tip jar" kind of jobs. I've worked all of these kinds of jobs, and being a server is definitely the hardest, but it's also the only one in which you can make pretty good money, thanks to the tipping system. And this is even allowing for the free-rider problem of bad tippers.
― Peacock, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks peacock.
Can you maybe postulate why eg uk restaurants manage to find servers?
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:13 (eleven years ago) link
there aren't actually any restaurants in the UK, just bars and waitroses and tescos
― 乒乓, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
off licenses iirc
― mookieproof, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
^ ^ ^
― I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
lol America
― I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
sp to darraghmac
Something is obviously very different outside the United States and I don't know exactly what it is. So no I can't postulate, but I know there must be an explanation.
I do know that I don't know any servers that would do this job for less than $20/hr, and I can't imagine the tipping system being replaced with that kind of wage in America.
― Peacock, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
however people define 'living wage' it's prob not California's 7.50 / h so really any other min wage in America
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
I know lots of people who would do any non-sex industry job for 20/h
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
Fair enough i dunno how that works out relative to ave income or w/e over there, but ppl queue for those jobs here atm on an hourly income (less tips!) that, at a guess, doesnt clear half the avg industrial wage
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
and any sex industry job for free amirite???
― Mordy, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
everyone should tip me for my great posts on ILX about tipping
― :C (crüt), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
I give 10% of my earnings to god etc
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
a lot of places pool tips (and I'm assuming that increases the likelihood the full amount will be reported) but I'm a big fan of pay by CC/tip in cash just in case.
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
also something to consider is that if you didn't have a tipping system, it could become easier for the waitstaff; instead of only assigning one waiter per table, you could have like a free-floating system where any table can flag down any waiter for service, you could have waitstaff whose only job it was is to bring food to a table and to clear tables, etc.
― 乒乓, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:29 (eleven years ago) link
iow the role of the busboy could be greatly expanded
*just revealed to ILX that I've never waited a table in my life*
― 乒乓, Friday, 1 February 2013 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
but i only want to be served by brad with the cute eyes
― #guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
Wait
If i want something in a restaurant in the US icve to wait for a partic server?
Are you serious
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Friday, 1 February 2013 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
then someone tips you
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:18 (eleven years ago) link
Kicks some gold dust into your face.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
gold dust woman is secretly a song about tipping
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:22 (eleven years ago) link
I am uncertain if Americans have the spiritual fortitude to withstand being able to tell if their waiters are having a great day (spoiler - probably not)
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, February 1, 2013 9:08 AM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark
have you ever been on yelp.com?
― 乒乓, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
probably the #1 argument for abolishing tipping is yelp.com
― 乒乓, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
I'm going to start tipping in bitcoins
― Ima R.A.E.D. (DJP), Friday, 1 February 2013 14:42 (eleven years ago) link
if we could tip ilxors w/ bitcoins for good posts, this site would improve dramatically
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
or at least give them some of that sweet banner ad cashflow
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
"tipping is the only way you can give/receive money to/from virtual strangers without it being weird"
nope nope, this is always weird. it makes every act of kindness or decency subject to market incentive while all parties have to conspire to pretend it doesn't. straight up just giving money to strangers by comparison is a breeze.
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 1 February 2013 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
is kickstarter really just a form of tipping
― iatee, Friday, 1 February 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
i tip 17.5% in restaurants just cuz that's the math i like to do in my head.
― saltwater incursion (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 February 2013 19:16 (eleven years ago) link
I want to get into a meeting with some venture capitalists and offer them t-shirts as return on their investment. "If you invest a quarter of a million dollars, you will receive this company t-shirt. If you invest one half of one million dollars, I will eat lunch with you and two of your friends."
― that Django got me Nuages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 1 February 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
"c'mon. be a dude. it's kickstarter grandpa!"
yah kickstarter is way closer to just straight up giving strangers money than tipping.
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 1 February 2013 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
esp if they don't end up actually giving you the t-shirt or having lunch with you.
a fried of a friend was trying to turn his food truck into a restaurant on kickstarter. they were offering meals at the restaurant (at what would've been a hefty markup) as the return. put a business plan together and get some actual investors. hate kickstarter sometimes.
― that Django got me Nuages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 1 February 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
in asia, tipping doesn't happen. and, in most places, service kinda sucks pretty bad. otoh, i have several friends who wait tables in america, and they make pretty good money for it, even when you factor in the rare dickwad who doesn't tip. and service in america tends to be way better than in, say, singapore, where they get (shitty) regular paychecks instead.
so, tipping - let's keep it.
they have this system at metafilter, and it goes a long way towards keeping things considered, civil and interesting
― messiahwannabe, Sunday, 3 February 2013 05:18 (eleven years ago) link
whoa really how much money can you make
― iatee, Sunday, 3 February 2013 05:28 (eleven years ago) link
if this catches on some nabisco type dude can make a career out of being a good message board poster
― iatee, Sunday, 3 February 2013 05:30 (eleven years ago) link
perhaps i misunderstood the meaning of "bitcoins" on mefi it's "favorites" and is basically nothing more than warm fuzzies, sorry for the confusion. still nothing like getting positive feedback! it's not entirely unlike tipping
― messiahwannabe, Sunday, 3 February 2013 06:01 (eleven years ago) link
Bitcoins are an "actual" "currency"
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Sunday, 3 February 2013 06:32 (eleven years ago) link
You can use em to buy drugs on the internet
i would be the BEST POSTER EVER if it would allow me to buy drugs on the internet.
― messiahwannabe, Sunday, 3 February 2013 06:40 (eleven years ago) link
"in asia, tipping doesn't happen. and, in most places, service kinda sucks pretty bad."I haven't eaten in enough of asia or america to say conclusively, but I suspect that controlled for most factors, you're going to get better service in asia, and america really can't hold a claim over providing better welfare for its workers at least over asian countries with nationalized public health services. I'd agree that mefi is generally a better environment than reddit, but reddit also has "tipping", as does yahoo answers and they are generally pretty awful. I'd suspect mefi might even have been worsened by the introduction of this fake tipping if there was a pre and post-tipping era.
On the other hand, I do feel people on social networks ought to receive a cut of whatever ad money facebook et. al are making off them, but that's more of a "reparations" thing than "incentiviziivizing"
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 3 February 2013 08:12 (eleven years ago) link
Gonna start a thread for the mods to tell us what % of posts we're getting fp'd for, reverse tipping score
― b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Sunday, 3 February 2013 11:14 (eleven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Monday, 4 February 2013 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
no ilx consensus for blah blah shockah
― Aimless, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
Experiments:
That’s one reason we pay attention when a restaurant tries another way, as Sushi Yasuda in Manhattan started to do two months ago. Raising most of its prices, it appended this note to credit card slips: “Following the custom in Japan, Sushi Yasuda’s service staff are fully compensated by their salary. Therefore gratuities are not accepted.”
Sushi Yasuda joins other restaurants that have done away with tips, replacing them with either a surcharge (Atera and Chef’s Table at Brooklyn Fare in New York; Next and Alinea in Chicago; Coi and Chez Panisse in the San Francisco Bay Area) or prices that include the cost of service (Per Se in New York and the French Laundry in Yountville, Calif.).
The chef Tom Colicchio is considering service-included pricing at one of his New York restaurants, paying servers “an hourly rate that would be consistent with what they make now,” he said. “I think it makes perfect sense. I’m not sure my staff is going to think it makes perfect sense.”
These restaurants are numerous enough and important enough to suggest that a tip-reform movement is under way. On the other hand, they are few enough and exceptional enough to suggest that the movement may remain very small, and move very slowly.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 September 2013 14:43 (ten years ago) link
Public NYC Taxicab Database Lets You See Which Celebrities Tipped
― bippity bup at the hotel california (Phil D.), Thursday, 23 October 2014 17:51 (nine years ago) link
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/11/10/joes-crab-shack-becomes-first-restaurant-chain-to-implement-no-tipping-policy/
I know you'll be shocked that the Fox News comments are universally godawful
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2015 05:24 (eight years ago) link
https://www.grubstreet.com/2020/07/tip-50-percent.html
Tip at least 50 percent. Tip 75 percent. Tip 100 percent. What’s stopping you? Do you need to save that money for the vacation to Saint-Tropez you’re planning on taking once this is all over? If you can afford to go to a restaurant right now and have a leisurely meal — because you don’t need to save as much money as you can? — then, yeah, you can afford it.
― j., Friday, 3 July 2020 04:28 (three years ago) link
Tip 200 percent. Tip 300 percent! Give the delivery guy your car and the deed to your house. If you can order food, you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 country, save those stories about how you ordered out because your back hurt too much to cook because you're taking care of your disabled spouse and your kids, clearly there's a jar full of stacks atop your fridge!
― I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 July 2020 04:31 (three years ago) link
Once there was a miller who was poor, but who had a beautifuldaughter. Now it happened that he had to go and speak to theking, and in order to make himself appear important he saidto him, I have a daughter who can spin straw into gold. Theking said to the miller, that is an art whichpleases me well, if your daughter is as clever as you say, bringher to-morrow to my palace, and I will put her to the test.
― j., Friday, 3 July 2020 04:37 (three years ago) link
Haha Neanderthal
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Friday, 3 July 2020 05:22 (three years ago) link
Tipping is usually 15% in Quebec, which apparently makes us cheapskates. Vermonters and Upstate New Yorkers who work in the service industry reportedly cringe when they see 'Je me souviens' licence plates.
― pomenitul, Friday, 3 July 2020 14:24 (three years ago) link
If it's any consolation, I lived in Buffalo for three years and waitresses resented Ontarians just as much.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Friday, 3 July 2020 14:49 (three years ago) link
Socialist neighbours are such a drag.
― pomenitul, Friday, 3 July 2020 14:52 (three years ago) link
also servers in canada still make less than provincial minimum wage, which is why you still tip
Btw, this is false in seven provinces and only true for liquor servers in Ontario and BC (who are just under minimum wage $12.20 vs $14/$13.95 vs $14.60). I don't even really know why we tip as much as we do.
https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-legislation/MinimumWage.asp
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Friday, 3 July 2020 15:56 (three years ago) link
I don’t know what tipping means
― Keir’d flex (wins), Friday, 3 July 2020 16:00 (three years ago) link
Something to do with sleeping cows iirc
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Friday, 3 July 2020 16:05 (three years ago) link
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/trump-administration-tippers-fine-dining-dc.html
― That's not really my scene (I'm 41) (forksclovetofu), Friday, 5 February 2021 04:45 (three years ago) link