HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

yeah, same as everybody else really: this is shaping up to be the best season

Theon is the Pete Campbell of this show, I will never tire of watching people inflict physical pain on him.

Ooh, who'd be Don? Peggy? Roger?

Tyrian has a bit of the Roger about him.

Tyrion actually, isn't it. Oops.

Arya is Peggy.

otm

Was gonna say Ned was Don, but he was actually more like Lane.

Yes. Totally.

Ooh, who'd be Roger?

Pretty much half the dudes in this are idiot manchildren who are in their position purely as a result of stuff their dad did.

Jaime is Don.

Making Cersei Betty?

These mostly don't work at all with the exception of Arya as Peggy which is totally OTM.

Stannis = Duck Phillips.

Maester Pycelle = Teddy Rumsen

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/24/us-moldova-crisis-idUSBRE93N0PA20130424

too much time on GoT

I caught "The Last Legion" when flipping channels, which was awful, but noticed a ton of actors that are also in GoT. I wonder why.

Owen Teale, James Cosmo, Ian Glen, Thomas Sangster, Robert Pugh and Nonso Anozie.

They're pretty bad in it, too.

That last one was a good ep and had a humdinger of an ending, which helped people come away from it buzzing, but it wasn't 'best ever' material for me. Not every story thread was that strong this week, especially Theon's, which ended up with his character back where he was - in every sense - three weeks ago. I hope this was for a good reason, because otherwise everything that has happened to him this season has been pointless.

Still, really liked: Tywin castigating Cersei for not controlling Joffrey; Varys meeting his match with Diana Rigg; shit getting real with Dany, her dragons and her slave army - which you could see coming, but it came sooner than I expected, as did the showdown at Craster's Keep.

Most of the other story threads trod water a little, but the most pointless bit was a whole scene dedicated to a discussion about Podrick's prowess yet again.

ooh yeah I liked the Night's Watch massacre, that was p crazy

Come on, the Podrick thing is clearly going somewhere, he's the new most popular dude at the centre of massive spy network. They're not just putting in a few scenes about him having an enormous penis for lolz.

They're not putting in any scenes about him having an enormous penis, actually

Motion of the ocean, maybe

My friend told me that the Podrick stuff isn't even in the book?

no it's not, but i also feel pretty sure it is going somewhere more significant

i mean, somewhere specific, #nospoiler

it bothers me now how much each character has basically a single type of situation they're in, and then they react in a particular type of way to that situation and you think something's changed but basically they end up in the same type of situation again and react the same way again and over and over. there's like no genuine character movement at all, just the same tropes repeating themselves.

i mean nonetheless this creates plenty of entertaining scenes, but...

In the books Podrick Payne is 12

"

s. clover, if that bothers you, I recommend you steer clear of the books because they are this X 1,000

haha yeah was gonna say...

it bothers me now how much each character has basically a single type of situation they're in, and then they react in a particular type of way to that situation and you think something's changed but basically they end up in the same type of situation again and react the same way again and over and over.

I say the same about Mad Men! But in a way I think that's more true to how people react, I don't think people grow and change as much as we'd hope.

likely the best thing about GoT is that that harsh reality of humanity's inability to change its fundamental self-destructive nature regardless of how many life lessons appear to be being learned is juxtaposed with fire-breathing dragons and an army of the undead

I think Mad Men captures in a pretty good way how people are a mixture of that which is more readily changeable and that which is resistant to change - Peggy is a good example of a character who has "grown" in a manner pretty consistent with her original behaviour.

Maybe in Game of Thrones the absence of real social constraint - of social rules to be negotiated except in the most heavyhanded sense - seems like an impediment to fostering the (limited) kind of personal growth that Mad Men can track. The absence of any real reward system, and the intense tribalism, means that people aren't really encouraged to change, they can just keep doing what they're doing and kill or be killed along the way.

Game of Thrones the absence of real social constraint - of social rules to be negotiated except in the most heavyhanded sense - seems like an impediment to fostering the (limited) kind of personal growth that Mad Men can track. The absence of any real reward system, and the intense tribalism, means that people aren't really encouraged to change, they can just keep doing what they're doing and kill or be killed along the way.

― Tim F, Wednesday, April 24, 2013 12:42 PM

Not entirely accepting the premise tbh. The rules are feudal and enforcement is consistent (and often brutal). Hence the extremity of courtesy between individuals of like status, reciprocal treatment of highborn hostages, etc etc. Exceptions prove the rule. Those who violate the rules will inevitably suffer terribly, die horribly, and bring down consequences on their house and smallfolk that may last for generations. Whereas those who abide by the rules will merely suffer terribly and die horribly ;)

tbh i can't see the case for claiming characters aren't growing and changing on this show

i sort of buy the argument. the movement in mad men, such as it is, comes from characters moving into different positions and relationships and so relating differently -- peggy advancing thru the ranks, don in a v. different family dynamic with his current vs. previous marriage -- the disruption of the britishers buying the firm then being the plucky new firm, etc.

arguably in the GoT world you're basically in the sort of role you're born in to be, lineage is destiny, etc.

but like the daenerys plotline, fun as it is, is the 'same story' in a way as since season one. in a strange land, strange people not respecting her, they underestimate her, she takes control of a large body of men/wealth/power, dragons!

its the plot movement that lacks as much as the character movement, really. on the other hand, i'm trying not to let it bother me and just enjoy the fun bits. its not like i have a stake in this as an important cultural product or something.

but Dany has changed a lot since the first episode. I actually think she's the clearest arc.

Yeah and Jon Snow has a new coat now!

in one sense she's changed, but in another its the same 'change' over and over again, just with higher stakes each time.

Not every story thread was that strong this week, especially Theon's, which ended up with his character back where he was - in every sense - three weeks ago.

While he is, literally, back where he was three weeks ago; I really enjoyed the twist of him going through all that just to be led back to his torture chamber. We got to see him open up – his comment about his real father losing his head in King's Landing was sort of surprising. And I think if he wasn't partially responsible for murdering and burning two children, we might have felt badly for him, seeing the maniacal we he's being messed with.

Yeah, that saved that whole bit for me.

I think Dany is continually having to readjust to new situations and find some kind of power and sense of purpose, but she's changing a lot in regards to how she handles herself as well as how she views the world.

Arguably, though, I don't think this show is about character arcs in the traditional sense. In many ways we are presented with characters who have a certain viewpoint and we see how they react to situations that may challenge said viewpoint, all the while getting layers peeled back as we learn more and more about them (Cersei, for instance, hasn't changed much since the first episode but she continually becomes a more complex character that deepens the interest in how she reacts and operates.)

i like that the main arcs in the story come from the characters who feel/are marginalized (or at least that's how it seems to me)

many xps and i have no idea why i care but they explicitly mentioned podrick's dick is normal size just that he's got MADD SKILLLLLZ

i would be okay if theon was on a three episode arc every week that started with him being tortured, ep 2 he is released and brutalized further and rescued by someone of diminishing strength and capability, ep 3 he weeps and bitches and generally acts like a self-righteous jerk and is then recaptured.

have you read the books?

haha, just the first one. have i hit on it?

nah

Not entirely accepting the premise tbh. The rules are feudal and enforcement is consistent (and often brutal). Hence the extremity of courtesy between individuals of like status, reciprocal treatment of highborn hostages, etc etc. Exceptions prove the rule. Those who violate the rules will inevitably suffer terribly, die horribly, and bring down consequences on their house and smallfolk that may last for generations. Whereas those who abide by the rules will merely suffer terribly and die horribly ;)

― inste grammophon (rogermexico.), Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a different point, I think. The language of forms in Game of Thrones is v. distinct from who people actually *are* as characters, and the courtesies that people display towards one another have nothing to do with one what they're actually thinking or planning (except as a kind of elaborate combination of concealment and signification, and false-concealment and false-signification). Think of the members of the Council in King's Landing. None of the living members really believe in the roles they are playing (except perhaps, ironically, Varys, who as a character is positioned unusually outside of (or in between) "the rules") - Ned Stark did, and it cost him his life. But most everyone else's relationships to the "rules" is entirely cynical. Accordingly, personal growth is unnecessary - what is required is ever-more-sophisticated game playing.

Perhaps one of the things that happens with modernity is the (further) collapsing of the distance between social status and personality. In Mad Men, it's very hard for any character to advance in a manner that doesn't involve making others think well of them as people, at least in some senses. Mastery of the forms becomes less distinguishable from mastery of self. There is still game-playing, of course, but if you're trying desperately hard to come across as smart, sympathetic, mature, level-headed, wise, compassionate etc. it kinda rubs off on your inadvertent behaviour as well.

Art direction during Dany's scenes at the end are like woah.

Thought Varys's backstory was horribly shoe-horned in -- like, if this was any more expository, he and Tyrion would be having sex -- but then we see the sorcerer, and the story was all for his benefit.

Man, Beric Dondarrion has been through a lot, barely recognize him since we last saw him in season 1.

I know they got a new Mountain in season 2, but really, casting in this show must be a nightmare. Hire a guy for a bit role in season 1 and then bring him back to play an actual role in season 3.