HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

I think Mad Men captures in a pretty good way how people are a mixture of that which is more readily changeable and that which is resistant to change - Peggy is a good example of a character who has "grown" in a manner pretty consistent with her original behaviour.

Maybe in Game of Thrones the absence of real social constraint - of social rules to be negotiated except in the most heavyhanded sense - seems like an impediment to fostering the (limited) kind of personal growth that Mad Men can track. The absence of any real reward system, and the intense tribalism, means that people aren't really encouraged to change, they can just keep doing what they're doing and kill or be killed along the way.

Game of Thrones the absence of real social constraint - of social rules to be negotiated except in the most heavyhanded sense - seems like an impediment to fostering the (limited) kind of personal growth that Mad Men can track. The absence of any real reward system, and the intense tribalism, means that people aren't really encouraged to change, they can just keep doing what they're doing and kill or be killed along the way.

― Tim F, Wednesday, April 24, 2013 12:42 PM

Not entirely accepting the premise tbh. The rules are feudal and enforcement is consistent (and often brutal). Hence the extremity of courtesy between individuals of like status, reciprocal treatment of highborn hostages, etc etc. Exceptions prove the rule. Those who violate the rules will inevitably suffer terribly, die horribly, and bring down consequences on their house and smallfolk that may last for generations. Whereas those who abide by the rules will merely suffer terribly and die horribly ;)

tbh i can't see the case for claiming characters aren't growing and changing on this show

i sort of buy the argument. the movement in mad men, such as it is, comes from characters moving into different positions and relationships and so relating differently -- peggy advancing thru the ranks, don in a v. different family dynamic with his current vs. previous marriage -- the disruption of the britishers buying the firm then being the plucky new firm, etc.

arguably in the GoT world you're basically in the sort of role you're born in to be, lineage is destiny, etc.

but like the daenerys plotline, fun as it is, is the 'same story' in a way as since season one. in a strange land, strange people not respecting her, they underestimate her, she takes control of a large body of men/wealth/power, dragons!

its the plot movement that lacks as much as the character movement, really. on the other hand, i'm trying not to let it bother me and just enjoy the fun bits. its not like i have a stake in this as an important cultural product or something.

but Dany has changed a lot since the first episode. I actually think she's the clearest arc.

Yeah and Jon Snow has a new coat now!

in one sense she's changed, but in another its the same 'change' over and over again, just with higher stakes each time.

Not every story thread was that strong this week, especially Theon's, which ended up with his character back where he was - in every sense - three weeks ago.

While he is, literally, back where he was three weeks ago; I really enjoyed the twist of him going through all that just to be led back to his torture chamber. We got to see him open up – his comment about his real father losing his head in King's Landing was sort of surprising. And I think if he wasn't partially responsible for murdering and burning two children, we might have felt badly for him, seeing the maniacal we he's being messed with.

Yeah, that saved that whole bit for me.

I think Dany is continually having to readjust to new situations and find some kind of power and sense of purpose, but she's changing a lot in regards to how she handles herself as well as how she views the world.

Arguably, though, I don't think this show is about character arcs in the traditional sense. In many ways we are presented with characters who have a certain viewpoint and we see how they react to situations that may challenge said viewpoint, all the while getting layers peeled back as we learn more and more about them (Cersei, for instance, hasn't changed much since the first episode but she continually becomes a more complex character that deepens the interest in how she reacts and operates.)

i like that the main arcs in the story come from the characters who feel/are marginalized (or at least that's how it seems to me)

many xps and i have no idea why i care but they explicitly mentioned podrick's dick is normal size just that he's got MADD SKILLLLLZ

i would be okay if theon was on a three episode arc every week that started with him being tortured, ep 2 he is released and brutalized further and rescued by someone of diminishing strength and capability, ep 3 he weeps and bitches and generally acts like a self-righteous jerk and is then recaptured.

have you read the books?

haha, just the first one. have i hit on it?

nah

Not entirely accepting the premise tbh. The rules are feudal and enforcement is consistent (and often brutal). Hence the extremity of courtesy between individuals of like status, reciprocal treatment of highborn hostages, etc etc. Exceptions prove the rule. Those who violate the rules will inevitably suffer terribly, die horribly, and bring down consequences on their house and smallfolk that may last for generations. Whereas those who abide by the rules will merely suffer terribly and die horribly ;)

― inste grammophon (rogermexico.), Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a different point, I think. The language of forms in Game of Thrones is v. distinct from who people actually *are* as characters, and the courtesies that people display towards one another have nothing to do with one what they're actually thinking or planning (except as a kind of elaborate combination of concealment and signification, and false-concealment and false-signification). Think of the members of the Council in King's Landing. None of the living members really believe in the roles they are playing (except perhaps, ironically, Varys, who as a character is positioned unusually outside of (or in between) "the rules") - Ned Stark did, and it cost him his life. But most everyone else's relationships to the "rules" is entirely cynical. Accordingly, personal growth is unnecessary - what is required is ever-more-sophisticated game playing.

Perhaps one of the things that happens with modernity is the (further) collapsing of the distance between social status and personality. In Mad Men, it's very hard for any character to advance in a manner that doesn't involve making others think well of them as people, at least in some senses. Mastery of the forms becomes less distinguishable from mastery of self. There is still game-playing, of course, but if you're trying desperately hard to come across as smart, sympathetic, mature, level-headed, wise, compassionate etc. it kinda rubs off on your inadvertent behaviour as well.

Art direction during Dany's scenes at the end are like woah.

Thought Varys's backstory was horribly shoe-horned in -- like, if this was any more expository, he and Tyrion would be having sex -- but then we see the sorcerer, and the story was all for his benefit.

Man, Beric Dondarrion has been through a lot, barely recognize him since we last saw him in season 1.

I know they got a new Mountain in season 2, but really, casting in this show must be a nightmare. Hire a guy for a bit role in season 1 and then bring him back to play an actual role in season 3.

they recast beric

They kept Barristan! So, 1 for 3.

After her first episode, I was mildly disappointed with Diana Rigg, mostly because my image of Olenna was so clearly Maggie Smith, but I'm coming around to hey doing her own thing, and the scene with her and Varys is delicious.

Sansa, though... /shakes head

oh lol xpost

great ep, first time I've really thought the woman who plays danaerys is pullin off badass ancient desert dragon queen

― max, Monday, April 22, 2013 10:59 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark

otm, her acting got so much better when she was speaking valyrian! i guess it's like a penelope cruz situation, where she seems super awkward in english but totally rules in her native tongue

haha

http://www.vulture.com/2013/04/game-of-thrones-dothraki-language-inventor.html

lol slocki

(but otm)

so many weddings but how many funerals etc etc

so Stannis' daughter...is it just a deformity?

Stannis inflicted burns I'm guessing. Angry about having a daughter?

It's a disease called greyscale (for obvious reasons).

There's more about it in the books but that's all you need to know really.

i really liked this ep. everything's getting exciting. Kinda crushing on Kingslayer finally.

Though can I just: I am at the point of giving up hope of a Jon Snow or Jaime Lannister full frontal *sigh*

Hasn't full frontal (as far as men go) been limited to Theon? In which case, GoT is probably trollin' women.

I kind of guessed that with Bryan Cogman writing we'd get a good backstory speech, and Jamie's was probably the best the show has done.

For those of us who have heard a certain two word phrase, I've been trying to guess which characters it will involve, and now the show is just teasing me with the number of possibilities.

Also bummed there was no movement on the Podrick Sexual Prowess front. I hope that pays off.

yeah loved the Kingslayer backstory.

re full frontal. Yeah Theon so far only. big woop. all we got in this ep was Littlefinger's baitboy. if they're going to do it at least make it a OH HELLO reveal & not just zzz oh him. harrumph

that Littlefinger / Loris / Sansa plot felt like it was on fast forward with those three scenes all in a row

Jamie's was probably the best the show has done

yeah that was awesome

think it's time to have the yearly "srsy wtf is gillen trying to do with that accent" convo

sometimes there's even like an american twang in there, i just dk anymore

is he delib trying to make him sound like a un-nobleman acting posh, introducing that unsettling fake note

I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but if Shireen was is in it did they include Patchface?

no, altho she did sing his song over the credits

is GREY WORM going to be a big character

Grey Worm scene was dope.

ooh i'm thinking daenerys has a go on him when she finds out about jorah's shenanigans

him and dany become lovers after quaa'rlog the porcupine sorcerer uses the red god's powers to regrow his junk. i can't remember if they have introduced quaa'rlog yet.

ahh yes good point i forgot about the unsullied entry criteria

probs wouldnt want a porcupine sorcerer in charge of that gig anyway tbh

they've booked Diana Rigg in this the way WWE shoulda booked Lesnar

oh man Stannis' wife was Tara Fitzgerald

Serious? For a second I asked myself if that was her, then decided it wasn't.

i keep thinking i've seen the actor who plays roose bolton somewhere before but i realized he just sort of looks like terence stamp.

think it's time to have the yearly "srsy wtf is gillen trying to do with that accent" convo

― r|t|c, Monday, April 29, 2013 8:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

absolutely lost it at his delivery of "I can't tell you how touched I am"

I actually had to stop and rewind it