How Important Was Grunge As A Musical Movement?

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I liked Mother Love Bone. (Not sure if that's actualy three words, but I'm being influenced by Voice copy editor.) And Nirvana. Velvet Revolver seems too smooth, like its name! (I know they don't claim to be grunge, but yknow the Weiland)

― Don, Monday, 23 August 2004 22:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

prime-era Raven was a totally grunge wrestler....the self-pity, lazy attitude, long cutoff jeans and flannels...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

anyone remember what his ECW entrance music was?

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

there was a cool scene of pop music that wasn't grunge but was clearly informed by grunge, reacting to grunge, caused by grunge, or soemthing like that, that i really liked. things like the juliana hatfield album with "universal heartbeat" and "dumb fun" (on which juliana did a note-perfect parody of a cobain guitar solo), and the muffs' debut album (grunge-meets-shangri-la's, featuring a note-perfect cobain gtr parody of its own), and scarce's "all sideways," and there was that one pretty good madder rose album, and all sorts of stuff like that.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 23 August 2004 23:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Grunge's greatest contribution to culture will prove to be the subsequent demonisation of the plaid shirt.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 23 August 2004 23:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if Corrosion of Conformity was grunge? I liked them. Dunno if there was Southern Grunge, but Verbena was like the guy singer started trying to sound like Cobain, but the girl kept it more like X. Then she left, and he still did a Kurtish thing, even though Altoonative was dead, but it kinda worked anyway! Artistically, if not $(Had often been 'kinda," even with her, so no prob except I miss her).

― Don, Monday, 23 August 2004 23:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

Corrosion of Conformity was not grunge.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 23 August 2004 23:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

Thanks for clearing that up. The Anti-Seen? Or was grunge just another Yankee thing!!!

― Don, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 00:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if Corrosion of Conformity was grunge?

According to this Best Of Grunge tape from Caroline Records my dad bought me in middle school, Tin Machine was grunge.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 00:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

grunge grunge

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

sorry, i was influenced by this thread:

Why did so many '80s band names consist of the same word twice?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tin Tin (actual group, and I think they seperates the Tins so's not be confused with French kiddie thing)

― Dallred, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

Belgian.

― Hergefrombeyondthegrave (Wooden), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah! Sorry. Aren't Comets On Fire kinda *ambitious* for grunge? Not cool dropouts (but bloody good)

― Dallr, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

On the "hard rock" end of the pop spectrum, grunge killed hair metal. In Nietzschean terms (as lifted from a cursory reading of The Birth of Tragedy), grunge is Appollonian whereas hair metal is Dionysian. If you take a cyclical view of such things, this means that the inevitable grunge-killer will be Dionysian. (This is if you assume, as I do, that current "hard rock" is still in its grunge phase.)

An alternate view is that "hard rock" is seeing its evolutionary niche taken over by "hardcore rap" which represents a Hegelian synthesis of the dialectic strains of Dionysian hair metal and Appollonian grunge.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Apollonian", sorry.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 01:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

Wouldn't grunge be Dionysian?

― artdamages (artdamages), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 03:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

Hair metal b Dionysian; Dionysias God of Funn; Waves his wand, shit ahppens, walks on by, Vince Neil, Tommy Lee.

― Dallpark, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 03:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

Screaming Trees were great. So super great.

― shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 03:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yes, I'd class hair metal as significantly more Apollonian (ordered, constructed, overconstructed!) than grune.

― nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 03:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

Good point, Nabiscothingy!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 03:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Grunge passive-agressive in penumbra of pot, b.o., intent, webs of sound=grunginess (distillation).Apollonian. Dionysians plan *parites*(and rip those up too)

― Don, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 03:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Always fardling the crucial word"p-a-r-t-i-e-s." Although I guess Hirmental tries to have it both ways: put on your barbaric splendor, spray your hair just so, all your jewelry, tatoos, drugs; go rehearse your dandyish loutish songs, go rip a new one in your plan, but let it carry you; Dionysius got it all covered like Apollo's shades.

― do, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

This has to be the only grunge thread ever to devolve into a Greek mythology debate. This is why I post to this board in the first place.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Grunge is kind of more like Hephaestus than Apollo (the downtrodded husband of Aphrodite who sees her running around with Ares because he's got a bum leg), but I don't know if you're allowed to be Hephaestusian.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

What I'd give for a large sock full of horse manure...

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't see how you could listen to "Papercuts" or "In n' Out of Grace" or "End of the Universe" and NOT call that mess Dionysian.

David Coverdale hired Steve Vai and Aynsley Dunbar = APOLLONIAN

this is simple, people.

And yes, echoing Shookout, the godliness of the Screaming Trees can't be affirmed enough.

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

Wait, so what was the conclusion, was Apollonia grunge or not?

― wetmink (wetmink), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Chuck's Mudhoney hate makes me sad until I realize he hasn't had a new thought about them in 15 years.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

damn, my Apollonia pic got hosed

― wetmink (wetmink), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

this'll have to do

― wetmink (wetmink), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

anyone remember what his ECW entrance music was?

"Come Out And Play" by The Offspring

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 07:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

That sounds about right. I remember thinking he shoulda picked something grungier.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 07:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

I remember seeing Mudhoney, and Nirvana and Tad when they played in the UK (OK, I know it was probably "all over" by then) and it was pretty fucking thrilling at the time, I must admit.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 07:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

When I read a feature on "grunge fashion" in the observer magazine, the appeal of the whole thing keeled over a bit, and it got killed off for me by a combination of pearl jam, and the senseless things (*) new grunge inspired direktion.

*(insert name of any 3rd rate late '80's-early '90's lammo brit "indie" band here)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 07:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

Inasmuch as it didn't even really exist at all, except as anything other than minor sub-sub-genre, it was of no importance at all. It ain't dead - there are still bands playing that sort of stuff today, just as there were bands playing that sort of stuff for 20 years before the word "grunge" began to be applied to it; and in the process, transform (the word "grunge") itself from an adjective to a noun.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

I think a lotta the best rock, esp. Rock, as in 60s x 80s, is D x A, a/o v-versa (spelling the last out so yall woudn't think I was kissing the Voice again). Consider Spector (drum rituals at edge of Wagnerverse), Bea'uls (just-so songs, chirped 'n' bashed, as felames screeeeam. They retreat from latter, but Fortress O' Solitude incl. myndimplsions {"A Day In The Life"], and even explosions ["Yer Blues"]) Who (concept albums x destructo/misc. stoopid m'assive, onstage & off) Zep (obvious); ditto D x A of: Prince, Madonna, Hairmetal. Also Nirvana, to the extent that, in B'ham at tleast, they had the most pellucid onstage *sound*(voice, instruments, overall ambience) of anyone, despite dire room acoustics, and this in midst of K.C..s flaming-life-in-the-headlines.

― Dallpark, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 13:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

Wouldn't grunge be Dionysian?

Grunge = introverted, sarcastic, angry, chaste, restrained, self-conscious, heroin, hardcore

Hair Metal = extroverted, shallow, playful, libidinous, transgressive, self-forgetful, cocaine, glam

While grunge (like any loud rock music) still partakes of a Dionysian element, I would say that it represents somewhat of a retreat to a more Apollonian restraint. This is especially notable in its sartorial conservativeness and relative asexuality.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 13:44 (6 years ago) Permalink

True. also see "passive-aggressive" & other DearAbby-speak above.

― Dab, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 14:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

Malfunkshun, and by possibly clueless "association, Mother Love Bone (seen the boot ROOTS OF PEAL JAM, which might've been where I went astray-not sure, since I don't have any of these to check now), these I thought of as sort of glam-grunge: a parodic A x D? Apollo via parodic framework? Parodic of hairmetal's own semi-clueless (yet hitmaking!) unwitting parody of glam (incl. glammy [costumed macho catchy] Slade's songs covered by Hairmetal)Also glam-grunge maybe parodic of grunge antiglam?

― da, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 15:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha grunge is "chaste"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 21:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

YEAH, MUDHONEY WERE COMPLETE sXe VIRGINS WHO SPENT THEIR TIME PLAYING CHESS AND VOTING

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

I seriously think ever single Mudhoney song was about sex. I can't think of one that's not as I sit here right now.

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

while they were pretty monomaniacal there are some that aren't. off the top of my head, "Blinding Sun," "I Have To Laugh," "The Straight Life," "1995," "Fearless Doctor Killers," etc.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

what about Suck You Dr...err nevermind.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

Right around the time Nevermind and Ten blew up it was no longer cool at my high school to be a dickhead. Jeremy spoke and said Poison and Warrant and jocks are assholes. And then about two months later Snoop and Dre and Cypress Hill shook everything up again. It's easy to look back and make fun of the whole thing, but for a little bit, when "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was on MTV constantly, high school halls and bathrooms and locker rooms were a little safer for non-alpha-males.

― tom brown, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

Well at my school the Pantera/Slayer fans wouls still happily kick your ass and call you a faggot throughout the whole thing. The Dr. Dre kids totally left us alone.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

Plus Eddie Vedder once rubbed his shit in my mom's hair and then smacked her in the face with the microphone, so whatever.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

Is your mom Kurt Cobain?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 02:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

yes

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 02:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

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there are some pretty bad rock radio bands these days that are more on the Nirvana than PJ in terms of influences -- Seether and Puddle of Mudd in particular have been really ubiquitous on the radio the last couple years.

― some dude, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

i've at least heard Puddle of Mudd once, maybe one song? i can't see the Nirvana comparison at all!

― pipecock, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

'She Hates Me' was so Nirvana-for-tweens

― Hard House SugBanton (blueski), Friday, 17 April 2009 16:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

That is true pipecock they do deserve credit for that, too. As I said I was a big fan at the time. I did not mean to be hard on them.
As far the aping of their sound; it is almost always a failure anyway (these bands try) but it annoys anyway.
I also agree with you on why Mudhoney still sound good.

― chad, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm not saying they're super Nirvana-ish, but if you were gonna trace their sound to any of the big grunge bands, it would be Nirvana. it works that way for most big active rock bands of the past decade, really...Shinedown = Soundgarden, Godsmack = Alice In Chains, etc.

xpost

― some dude, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

i remember arguing about the merits of Godsmack with a coworker at the corporate CD store i worked at when they came out in 1999. i was like "they sound just like AIC but worse, they named themselves after one of their songs for godsakes!!" that guy finally just last year sent me a myspace apologizing for defending them.

― pipecock, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Godsmack certainly stole their name from AiC, and they have a few moments of atmospheric gloom which recalls Dirt...Voodoo is prolley one that most readily comes to mind...but if there is any numetal ripoff song which truly captures the spirit of what AiC is all about, it was Incubus' "Drive"...

― jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 17 April 2009 16:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.subpop.com/catalog/discography

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 18 April 2009 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

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