― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 07:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 10:57 (eighteen years ago) link
-- J.D. (aubade8...), November 13th, 2005.
is this not a "little" disingenuous though? mcewan comes from, i would guess, a quite similar background to savage, as it happens.
but the idea that mid-'70s new york rock was not "incredibly small, and inward-looking clique" is just hilariously dumb. patti smith is at least as vile as amis -- and i like them both.
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:27 (eighteen years ago) link
england's dreaming really shook me out of a "no music" phase I was going through. he's probably my fave music writer just for the effect that one book had on me. I recently found that time travel anthology, haven't really had time to dip in yet though.
― chips rofflety (haitch), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:43 (eighteen years ago) link
No further info on the Hac story, Matos. And frankly I have no idea what I was thinking here, because in it I say that I read something of Savage's in NewOrderStory, which is a film.
I would cut off a toe to read the Hac book.
― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Comma comma comma comunist, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― ratty, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― „©ROXYMUZAK„© (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― HAKKEBOFFER (eman), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― xero (xero), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:34 (eighteen years ago) link
Any Vagues are worth picking up and reading if you can find them, I particulatly love "The West Eleven Days of my Life".
― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:10 (eighteen years ago) link
Also: the book Teenage that he's working on is supposedly about youth culture from the turn of the century? Haven't really heard a lot about it.
Surely this could be better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Savage
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link
Hey, apparently that Haçienda Must Be Built book even has a Fac number!
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link
Vague back issues, and the anthology The Great British Mistake: Vague 1977-92 (Savage interview included), are available from AK Press, it looks like.
― xero (xero), Friday, 20 January 2006 02:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― xero (xero), Friday, 20 January 2006 02:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 January 2006 06:51 (eighteen years ago) link
also looking fwd to the gay-pop-thru-the-ages comp he's putting together for this year, also on Trikont
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 January 2006 06:52 (eighteen years ago) link
That comp thing sounds fantastic!
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 20 January 2006 20:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― Telephonething (Telephonething), Sunday, 7 May 2006 00:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 7 May 2006 19:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 7 May 2006 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― tiit (tiit), Sunday, 17 September 2006 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 17 September 2006 10:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 September 2006 03:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Thursday, 21 September 2006 08:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― tiit (tiit), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 21 September 2006 21:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 22 September 2006 08:16 (seventeen years ago) link
Also:
http://69.93.254.120/G/storage/site1/files/24/51/42/245142_76323876e8d154tarctm06.jpg
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 29 September 2006 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link
Has anyone here read "Teenage" yet ?
― Hedgerows, Monday, 14 January 2008 16:33 (sixteen years ago) link
I'll start paying attention to Jon Savage when he acknowledges that The Stranglers and The Jam were as great as any bands that were around at the time, the former outlasting most of those punk bands considerably and The Jam going on to become incredibly big in the UK in the early '80s.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Monday, 24 August 2015 23:25 (eight years ago) link
You may have a long wait, here he is in England's Dreaming:
Punk was politically riven as it interacted with the world outside. If the Jam and the Stranglers were going to coast in the slipstream of the Sex Pistols, then it was not surprising if they were judged on the same radical criteria and found wanting. Despite the element of novelty in both groups, there were also strong traces of stylistic and/or ideological conservatism which made them a satisfactory bridge between the mainstream and Punk’s all-out assault.
― anthony braxton diamond geezer (anagram), Tuesday, 25 August 2015 07:28 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I'm aware of his "stance" on both bands, and have always thought it was complete bullshit. If one listens to Never Mind The Bollocks and Black and White back-to-back, it's apparent which one sounds the most musically "conservative", and it ain't The Stranglers. IMO, the Pistols' music was far more monochrome by comparison, and both bands had a lot of attitude. Yes, The Jam were influenced by '60s acts, I don't think they ever denied that. However, surely not even Jon Savage can deny that that band meant a hell of a lot to a lot of people in the late '70s/early '80s, and if he does, then he's full of shit... and if he's implying that "punk was meant to be new", and that the Sex Pistols weren't influenced by anything and came about in a vacuum, then he's also full of shit. IMO, of course.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 16:42 (eight years ago) link
have you actually read his books?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 21:22 (eight years ago) link
https://thequietus.com/articles/30314-jon-savage-englands-dreaming-teenage-1966-owen-hatherley-interview
His perspective is so thought-provoking and really resonates with me.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 8 August 2021 19:57 (two years ago) link
That was a very interesting interview. Makes me want to read Teenage, but not 1966. England's Dreaming I've had for years.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 8 August 2021 21:52 (two years ago) link
1966 is pretty solid, I'd say give that a whirl. And yes to England's Dreaming, had the paperback run of that forever -- picked it up in 1992 when I visited the UK for the first time.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 8 August 2021 23:07 (two years ago) link
more than "pretty solid", 1966 is his best book IMO -- the interview doesn't really do it justice bcz it gets derailed into a (yes justified but also irrelevant) hate-fest against the very bad tory social historian dominic sandbrook
(this also means the much trickier question that hatherley asks -- abt the left-revisionist treatment of the 70s (historians beckett and edgerton) -- doesn't get explored)
― mark s, Tuesday, 10 August 2021 09:08 (two years ago) link