DRUMMERS: Advice for a beginner

Yeah, doing things steadily and repeatedly at this stage is more important than "learning songs" (which I guess means learning all the changes in beat, where the fills are, etc) -- although doing some of that stuff is important too to keep it fun.

being able to intuitively understand a rhythm, and especially know where the "1" is, is so critical. some people just...can't. i'd almost go so far to say that it's the equivalent to being tone deaf. someone without a good sense of rhythm recognition can probably be taught to understand it a little better, but...man it's gonna be a long uphill battle!

Lechera, there should be wires like this across the bottom of the snare:

http://ps257kids.webs.com/TamaStarphonicAluminium146SnareDrum_3.jpg

attached to one side will be some kind of mechanism or switch that, when flipped, pulls the wires taut. That may be the problem. However it could also be that that mechanism needs tightening (sometimes there's a sort of knob you can turn to do this) or it could be that one or both of the heads themselves are not tight enough.

i mean, you're still thinking of course, but it's more of a higher-order abstract guidance kind of thinking - like, "what kind of feeling do i want to create next" - rather than counting subdivisions and trying to make sure you land back on the beat.

Yeah, my favorite part of this is when I find myself playing something and I realize I'm not sure what I'm actually doing -- have to slow it down and break it into components to figure out what's going on.

LL, the only advice I'd give anyone starting drums is to a.) play a lot, even (or especially) if that means doing the same things over and over; and b.) as soon as possible, find some people to play with. I took drum lessons for a few years, but almost everything I learned really came from just being in a room with other people trying to make music. You have to find people at sort of close to your own level, but I bet there are plenty of people around who are just starting to learn guitar or bass or whatever and would like to have a drummer. I mean, I love just sitting at a drumset by myself, I can entertain myself for ages. But it's really an instrument that needs other instruments around it to thrive.

although doing some of that stuff is important too to keep it fun.

yeah, having fun is so important! i used to give free lessons to a friend back when i lived in chicago, and i think that's where i really fucked up. i was all about stripping things down to the basics and learning the fundamentals, repetition, playing along to a metronome, etc. but in doing so i completely KILLED THE FUN for her! and plus it was totally hypocritical, because when i first started out i never wanted to focus on fundamentals and play a basic beat without variation for 10 minutes. i was all about doing trying to do the most massive 16th note tom fill OF ALL TIME

yes -- it sounds like bom bom bom i knew there was something wrong with it, haha. man, this is a really good exercise in good natured humility on top of everything else.

i really do thank you all for the advices and also for answering my questions. i will try to keep them on a need-to-ask basis! i'm going to proceed with my plan to learn the song i was planning on learning (not like full choreography, just basics) right after i fix the snare. good thing i can take care of that before anyone had a chance to tell me that piece of information irl!

def not ready to invite anyone into the basement yet, but will set it as a future goal!

which i achieved, btw

xpost

I think I spent my first year and a half of drumming trying to figure out why my drumset didn't sound like John Bonham on record

ZS that is what I mean about teacher-student kismet re: methodology. everyone is a different kind of learner and i have yet to really figure out what i want/need from a teacher because i'm trying to figure out what i'm like as a learner.
once i do that, i will probably try to find a teacher who is able/willing to work with me on my terms
because i am bossy, apparently

I think I spent my first year and a half of drumming trying to figure out why my drumset didn't sound like John Bonham on record

When I saw Bonham's tiny little drum kit at the RnR Hall of Fame, that mystery just got deeper.

Lechera -- by the way, to be clear, that doesn't mean anything is wrong with it. The snare is designed so you can turn it "on" or "off" for different effects. If it turns "on" when you flip the switch, there's nothing wrong.

learning to be a drum set mechanic is a big part of learning to play imo

but in doing so i completely KILLED THE FUN

A teacher of mine used to say that you don't learn to talk by learning the alphabet first. I thought that was a decent analogy.

Yeah there's actually quite a lot of shit to figure out on a drumset, e.g. how to adjust the kick pedal, getting the cymbal stands right, etc. Not to mention all the crap that constantly malfunctions on you and needs quick fixes, especially on a beginner kit.

When I saw Bonham's tiny little drum kit at the RnR Hall of Fame, that mystery just got deeper.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, June 21, 2013 4:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I read an interview with Dave Mattacks who saw Bonham play on a tiny kit and he still inexplicably managed to get that sound.

He used a big bass drum though iirc

i am a language teacher -- this is very similar to trying to learn about the fundamentals of linguistics (and therefore why i am taking it excessively seriously but not so seriously that the fun is sapped)

so far i have had the most fun pretending that i am in a can jam, just repeating the same thing over and over and over until i feel like taking a little break, then i do that, then i go back. repeat. when i try to replicate what someone else is doing, i get a lot more of the YOU LOST IT shocks.

Why's a metronome important? I cannot cope with a click track for anything, I just can't hear it. What I do is make up a basic track on garageband and drum/play along to that.

I made a ten-minute 92bpm proto-funk thing for drumming, and recorded myself playing through it twice. It was really helpful for tempo, but there's about two usable bars on the whole thing. Every attempted fill I come off hitting the bass drum on the off-beat, then waiting a-beat-and-a-half to pick things up again.

xp Oh, he totally did; in Mattacks' anecdote, Bonham was playing on a kit much smaller than what he usually used, almost child-sized.

In re set-up, getting everything set at the right height is super-important, imo. Right meaning "right for you." It's interesting how much variation there is in that, I for some reason like everything pretty low and I've played on the kits of guys who were about the same height as me but had everything up way too high for my tastes.

ZS that is what I mean about teacher-student kismet re: methodology. everyone is a different kind of learner and i have yet to really figure out what i want/need from a teacher because i'm trying to figure out what i'm like as a learner.
once i do that, i will probably try to find a teacher who is able/willing to work with me on my terms

yeah, i totally get that, makes sense!

before you go down the lessons route, though, it might a good idea to take up Jordan's offer (or anyone else you know in town that plays drums) to just drop by and show you a few things. not a formal lesson or anything, but just a few practical tips.

the snare drum thing is one example, but there are lots of little things that are useful to know - like how to quickly adjust the space between the hi-hats, or how to tune a drum or change a drumhead, making sure you have little plastic protector guard things on your cymbal stands so that you don't slowly ruin your cymbals, how to do a flam, etc.

those kinds of things might be a relative waste of time with a tutor or an expensive one-off lesson, but can be really beneficial to a beginner!

xpost

Yeah the kick drum in the Bonham set I saw was good-sized, but whole thing was the size of your basic jazz set. Seemed inconceivable so much power could have come out of it.

Why's a metronome important? I cannot cope with a click track for anything, I just can't hear it. What I do is make up a basic track on garageband and drum/play along to that.

I made a ten-minute 92bpm proto-funk thing for drumming, and recorded myself playing through it twice. It was really helpful for tempo, but there's about two usable bars on the whole thing. Every attempted fill I come off hitting the bass drum on the off-beat, then waiting a-beat-and-a-half to pick things up again.

― Ismael Klata, Friday, June 21, 2013 4:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hate metronomes. I think learning to play musically with a metronome is kind of like trying to learn to dance fluidly with someone constantly rapping you on the legs. Sometimes they're a necessary evil, but I always think it's better to practice to music if possible.

Seemed inconceivable so much power could have come out of it.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, June 21, 2013 4:12 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah well it's not like you get a power multiplier from having more drums

In re set-up, getting everything set at the right height is super-important, imo. Right meaning "right for you." It's interesting how much variation there is in that, I for some reason like everything pretty low and I've played on the kits of guys who were about the same height as me but had everything up way too high for my tastes.

yeah, co-sign. i like the cymbals to be as low as possible without scraping the toms. And to be honest, i like the ride low enough so that if i REALLY hit it hard it will hit the floor tom a bit. most people seem to prefer the cymbals way up high, though, which is really inefficient (imo - everyone has their own style of course). i guess if you're setting them up really high you're not really too concerned about your efficiency, though.

http://i.imgur.com/7pQ49uC.jpg

Anton Fig's cymbal placement makes me ia.

yeah well it's not like you get a power multiplier from having more drums

Now you tell me!

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab16/late8/big-drum-kit_zps2e89a836.jpg

playing along to a metronome is definitely not fun, but i still think it's worth doing for at least a minute or two each practice session. it's uncomfortable because it exposes even the best players to their weaknesses in maintaining a steady tempo. as a beginner the goal might be to just play a simple 4/4 rock beat to a metronome. it'll quickly become apparent whether you tend to rush or slow down over time. as you progress, the timing inconsistencies more commonly show themselves when playing fills.

John Bonham got his sound because he was John Bonham.

Now I want to get a drum set.

I go back and forth with the metronome thing...I can see how it would be helpful, but then I think how some of my favorite drummers always sped up ("Honky Tonk Women" is way faster at the end than at the beginning).

John Bonham got his sound because he was John Bonham.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, June 21, 2013 4:20 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and there was a lot of studio wizardry too -- 12-year-old me didn't stand much chance of reproducing the slap-back on When The Levee Breaks in my parents' basement.

I go back and forth with the metronome thing.

*rimshot*

Now I want to get a drum set.

― Elvis Telecom, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:22 PM (25 minutes ago)

Me too! My wife's cousin was the drummer in the Kudzu Kings (have no idea if they have any fame outside N. Miss.) and tried to sell me a spare kit a few years ago...should have taken him up on it.

BTW, if you look it up, no way did Bonham use small drums or cymbals. He even used 15" hats.

14" x 10" rack tom, 16" x 16" and 18" x 16" floor toms, 26" x 14" kick, and 14" x 6.5" snare drum says the internet

When I saw Bonham's tiny little drum kit at the RnR Hall of Fame, that mystery just got deeper.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, June 21, 2013 4:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

...

xp Oh, he totally did; in Mattacks' anecdote, Bonham was playing on a kit much smaller than what he usually used, almost child-sized.

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:10 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry, meant to snag this one instead of the first one there:

I read an interview with Dave Mattacks who saw Bonham play on a tiny kit and he still inexplicably managed to get that sound.

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:07 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you drum nerds

I think I misread that to mean a smaller kit than Mattacks usually used

Oh, yeah, everyone said Bonham sounded like Bonham no matter what he played.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham#Drums

My high school had a set of amber Vistalites, always coveted those.

Basically, what we're all saying is that you should sound like John Bonham after about a week or so of practice. If you don't, then just give up.

I recommend practicing on pillows, tbh. Play along to songs, bashing to the beat. It's great, because there is no rebound, so it builds strength while you're working on your time.

Bonham was at Mattacks' house. Mattacks had a tiny kit, possibly for a child to use, and was amazed that Bonham was able to get the Bonham Sound out of it.

That is all.

yeah I was big on pillow practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXtqfce2yQ0

keith moon and i share a birthday, so i am assuming that means that i will be great within a month or so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcEpVF3lGVU

xpost Or dead.