DRUMMERS: Advice for a beginner

xpost

Yeah the kick drum in the Bonham set I saw was good-sized, but whole thing was the size of your basic jazz set. Seemed inconceivable so much power could have come out of it.

Why's a metronome important? I cannot cope with a click track for anything, I just can't hear it. What I do is make up a basic track on garageband and drum/play along to that.

I made a ten-minute 92bpm proto-funk thing for drumming, and recorded myself playing through it twice. It was really helpful for tempo, but there's about two usable bars on the whole thing. Every attempted fill I come off hitting the bass drum on the off-beat, then waiting a-beat-and-a-half to pick things up again.

― Ismael Klata, Friday, June 21, 2013 4:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hate metronomes. I think learning to play musically with a metronome is kind of like trying to learn to dance fluidly with someone constantly rapping you on the legs. Sometimes they're a necessary evil, but I always think it's better to practice to music if possible.

Seemed inconceivable so much power could have come out of it.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, June 21, 2013 4:12 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah well it's not like you get a power multiplier from having more drums

In re set-up, getting everything set at the right height is super-important, imo. Right meaning "right for you." It's interesting how much variation there is in that, I for some reason like everything pretty low and I've played on the kits of guys who were about the same height as me but had everything up way too high for my tastes.

yeah, co-sign. i like the cymbals to be as low as possible without scraping the toms. And to be honest, i like the ride low enough so that if i REALLY hit it hard it will hit the floor tom a bit. most people seem to prefer the cymbals way up high, though, which is really inefficient (imo - everyone has their own style of course). i guess if you're setting them up really high you're not really too concerned about your efficiency, though.

http://i.imgur.com/7pQ49uC.jpg

Anton Fig's cymbal placement makes me ia.

yeah well it's not like you get a power multiplier from having more drums

Now you tell me!

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab16/late8/big-drum-kit_zps2e89a836.jpg

playing along to a metronome is definitely not fun, but i still think it's worth doing for at least a minute or two each practice session. it's uncomfortable because it exposes even the best players to their weaknesses in maintaining a steady tempo. as a beginner the goal might be to just play a simple 4/4 rock beat to a metronome. it'll quickly become apparent whether you tend to rush or slow down over time. as you progress, the timing inconsistencies more commonly show themselves when playing fills.

John Bonham got his sound because he was John Bonham.

Now I want to get a drum set.

I go back and forth with the metronome thing...I can see how it would be helpful, but then I think how some of my favorite drummers always sped up ("Honky Tonk Women" is way faster at the end than at the beginning).

John Bonham got his sound because he was John Bonham.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, June 21, 2013 4:20 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and there was a lot of studio wizardry too -- 12-year-old me didn't stand much chance of reproducing the slap-back on When The Levee Breaks in my parents' basement.

I go back and forth with the metronome thing.

*rimshot*

Now I want to get a drum set.

― Elvis Telecom, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:22 PM (25 minutes ago)

Me too! My wife's cousin was the drummer in the Kudzu Kings (have no idea if they have any fame outside N. Miss.) and tried to sell me a spare kit a few years ago...should have taken him up on it.

BTW, if you look it up, no way did Bonham use small drums or cymbals. He even used 15" hats.

14" x 10" rack tom, 16" x 16" and 18" x 16" floor toms, 26" x 14" kick, and 14" x 6.5" snare drum says the internet

When I saw Bonham's tiny little drum kit at the RnR Hall of Fame, that mystery just got deeper.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, June 21, 2013 4:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

...

xp Oh, he totally did; in Mattacks' anecdote, Bonham was playing on a kit much smaller than what he usually used, almost child-sized.

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:10 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry, meant to snag this one instead of the first one there:

I read an interview with Dave Mattacks who saw Bonham play on a tiny kit and he still inexplicably managed to get that sound.

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:07 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you drum nerds

I think I misread that to mean a smaller kit than Mattacks usually used

Oh, yeah, everyone said Bonham sounded like Bonham no matter what he played.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham#Drums

My high school had a set of amber Vistalites, always coveted those.

Basically, what we're all saying is that you should sound like John Bonham after about a week or so of practice. If you don't, then just give up.

I recommend practicing on pillows, tbh. Play along to songs, bashing to the beat. It's great, because there is no rebound, so it builds strength while you're working on your time.

Bonham was at Mattacks' house. Mattacks had a tiny kit, possibly for a child to use, and was amazed that Bonham was able to get the Bonham Sound out of it.

That is all.

yeah I was big on pillow practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXtqfce2yQ0

keith moon and i share a birthday, so i am assuming that means that i will be great within a month or so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcEpVF3lGVU

xpost Or dead.

(sorry)

i've already outlived him by 5 years! i think we're out of the woods there.

keith moon and i share a birthday, so i am assuming that means that i will be great within a month or so

― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Friday, June 21, 2013 6:10 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If you take amphetamines hourly from now until then, you will be.

actually I think one of the hardest things about imitating Bonham off a record is the slap back echoes -- so much of it sounds like ghost notes that you wind up playing a bunch of extra hits

I recommend practicing on pillows, tbh. Play along to songs, bashing to the beat. It's great, because there is no rebound, so it builds strength while you're working on your time.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, June 21, 2013 5:54 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was also the Dave Grohl method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPiG7HVt5lM

i don't wanna collapse, going to stick to regular coffee as planned

btw n/a, danm -- you guys may go into the basement, jordan too
just no strangers yet

well, i don't really seem to know what i'm doing for about 14 seconds, but this is my first tiny (1 min) recording so i can remember what i've been practicing
i def need a metronome!
http://snd.sc/130Uj8C

Sweet! I might need a drummer for my NIN precover thing - what are your rates?

Not bad, seriously. Single strokes sound pretty even, although it's hard to hear through soundcloud, and your time and feel are good for a beginner.

A suggestion: try slowing that beat down a good amount. In particular because you're playing a syncopated beat with the snare on the first and fourth sixteenth notes, it would help to play it slower so that you can really tighten the snare hits and get them exactly in the right places. If you don't already know how to count out sixteenth note patterns, I can post more on that and bore you some.

i have trouble slowing down -- i just get faster and faster til i have to stop for a second (that's when i do the fills) and then i try to resume normalcy after that.
thanks for listening! i am trying to get comfortable with the idea of this and i just decided to jump in the deep end.

when i'm playing the standard 4/4 (is that what it's called y/n) rock beat i sound pretty normal i think, but this one was new for me. i don't worry that i'm going to forget that one because it's like every song ever, apparently.

questions:

do i need a smaller crash cymbal? the one i have always sounds so final.
do i have to wear shoes? i alternate between shod and unshod.

not sure if i know how to count out 16th note patterns or not. i think i have trouble integrating words and music? like when people talk through dance steps i find it really distracting.

I'd hold off on worrying about the size of the crash cymbal for now. it's something that you'll naturally develop a feel for as you go, and the kind(s) of cymbal(s) you need depends on what kind of music you're playing.

shoes? just wear whatever makes you comfortable! i usually go barefoot or with shoes, and avoid socks only.

being able to count out patterns verbally is useful, i'm sure, but i've never been able to do it that well. more important is just developing an intuitive feel for where the subdivisions are in the beat, and making sure your hits are striking directly on those subdivisions. just curious - can you read music? not notes on a scale like B flat or C sharp or whatever, but rhythms like quarter notes, sixteenth notes, half rests, etc?

"do i need a smaller crash cymbal? the one i have always sounds so final."

I <3 this question. But no, you don't "need" any cymbal. In fact I really, strongly encourage you to trust your ears and avoid any gear dudes who tell you you have to have x or y on your kit. Go hang out in Guitar Center and just hit different cymbals for half an hour and see what sounds good to you. But don't sweat nailing down the exact right gear in the beginning either, that will come gradually.

If you think of a 4/4 measure, it can be divided into sixteen sixteenth notes:

//// //// //// ////

where each slash is a sixteenth note. So in the beat you're playing, the snare hits are on the x's:

//// x//x //// x///

Learning to hear that, and to do it at a slower speed, will help the beat sound tighter and less sloppy when you play it faster. Does it make sense the way I wrote it?

You can also do it as 1-e-and-a 2-e-and-a 3-e-and-a 4-e-and-a -- that's a standard way drum teachers teach it. In that case, the snare hits would be on the bolded syllables:

1-e-and-a 2-e-and-a 3-e-and-a 4-e-and-a

this might take some time to get, don't worry if it doesn't click right away

in case you can't see the bold, it's the "2", the "a" immediately following the 2, and the "4"

i used to kind of know, but have forgotten most of the vocab and retained none of the skill
maybe that would be another thing to get from the library when i go -- they have a lot of simple instructional books

xx//xxx/ makes more sense to me than the second one, which makes my brain feel like scrambled eggs

i do not have the inclination to load up on gear, so no worries about that. was just wondering because it sounded kinda weird to me
one of my trusted chilx friends helped with the snare so that's all better too :)

maybe that would be another thing to get from the library when i go -- they have a lot of simple instructional books

yeah, i'd totally recommend it! drummers actually have it relatively easy because we don't have to learn tons of notes, scales, and keys, and we don't have to pick up a totally new system like guitarists do with tabs. but having a firm grip on the basics of notated rhythm will reaaaaaally come in handy, over and over. also, once you get just the basics down (quarter notes/rests + eighth notes/rests) you'll be able to go through exercises that teach you new rhythms.

My handy guide to cymbals: cheap cymbals sound bad, expensive "hi-tech" cymbals sound bad, expensive regular cymbals sound better, vintage cymbals sound even better, and cracked cymbals sound the best

ha, i'm with you all the way up to the cracked cymbals. well, i guess some cracked cymbals sound good...depends on the crack! but definitely don't go cheap on the cymbals. there are lots of budget lines that are tempting because they'll sell them in a package set for $300 or something and it gets you something like 2 crashes and a ride. it's a much better idea to skip out on that entirely and just buy one really nice vintage cymbal. if you take care of it, a good ride should last you forever - it's worth it! plus you'll sound really good.

yeah obv depends on the crack and the cymbal. But sometimes a crack in a vintage cymbal gives a cymbal a great character while also massively lowering the price tag.

But yeah, I think spending on cymbals is more important than spending on drums. You can take a cheap steel snare and do a lot to improve the sound, as long as the hardware is well constructed and not going to fall apart -- try different heads, different tunings, etc. And a lot of the stuff about maple vs. birch vs. whatever wood is just fashion, and what's more expensive one decade will be cheaper the next. But you can't change a cymbal.