Guns N Roses - Use Your Illusion 1+2 - Classic or Dud?

have there been any high-profile critic "callouts" in the rock genre since "Get in the Ring"? really think that was the height of GNR's ridiculousness, but just curious of what other examples the genre may hold (not looking for rap, obv, cuz the genre is sort of based on calling out other people in song).

"I Killed Christgau With My Big Fucking Dick"

But since? Hmm, no one gives a shit about critics anymore.

I heard the new Daft Punk album is going to be an album-long takedown of Greil Marcus.

i feel like artist/critic beefs are MORE common in the internet era, but when it's so easy to just tweet that so-and-so punks in the press can suck your dick, it probably feels less urgent to write a song expressing the same sentiment. probably the most high profile recent example of a star dissing a writer in song is Taylor Swift's "Mean," but Bob Lefsetz isn't called out by name and stretches the meaning of the word 'critic.'

I love "Get In The Ring" so much, mostly for how little effort it makes to rhyme. My favorite line:

"I don't like you/I just hate you/I'm going to ... kick your ass!"

Runner up: "I got a thought that would be nice/I'd like to crush your head tight in my vice- PAIN!!"

say whatever you want about this album. Listen to two minutes of Chinese Democracy and you'll see a true rock bottom.

― Neanderthal, Sunday, June 23, 2013 2:47 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there are great songs on CD, come on man

Even at its best that album makes the two Illusion albums sound like Albini jams.

There are? Xpost

yeah Better and There Was a Time are fantastic songs, let them into your heart bro

i think i've tried on three separate occasions to make a satisfying single disc edit of this record and i guess i like the garbage on it too much, current edit is 14 songs, 1 hour 22 minutes

death to all customized tracklistings that omit "locomotive"

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:25 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

me otm

Locomotive might be my favorite song on both discs. Definitely top 5 for me.

w/ most of UYI it's very easy for me to separate the good songs from the bad songs but "Locomotive" is like half awesome with a really lousy chorus (or at least i hate the offbeat Deep Downer vocal on the chorus)

"locomotive" is my favorite gnr song

xpost Yeah, but I love how it hits that super-weird odd-tempo groove. Plus, it's half coda, and the coda is great.

it's almost like the only thing that justifies these albums is the fact that they exist all bloated and tiresome as they are, NONE of the songs are as good as ANY of the songs on 'appetite' but put them all together and throw in some holdover enthusiasm and 90s nostalgia and it's like, well, just let them be what they are

I dunno, I like a couple of the songs a lot. Though maybe none of the singles, save the "Terminator" one. It's a different band, as different as early Genesis is from "Invisible Touch"

idk, I would rather listen to "Right Next Door to Hell", "Dust n Bones", "November Rain", "You Could Be Mine", or "Back Off Bitch" than "Sweet Child o' Mine" ever again.

AFD obviously their masterwork but I listen to the Illusions more these days cos I've heard Appetite more times than I can count and haven't spent as much time with the Illusions.

I like UYI best out of all their stuff.

http://www.altpress.com/news/entry/axl_rose_once_postponed_a_guns_n_roses_show_because_he_was_watching_teenage

"Locomotive" is my jam.

The only songs I need from UYI are Estranged, You Could Be Mine, and Don't Cry. Sometimes November Rain if I'm feeling corny.

All the non-singles from Appetite are fierce vignettes of depravity that burn with fire and passion. The bulk of UYI is half-baked early cast-offs, misguided genre experiments, lyrical cliches, and rote boogie.

imo "locomotive" is as good as anything on appetite

i love how every personal single disc edit i've ever seen of this album is radically different

"Get in the ring" is silly but I've always liked it (maybe BECAUSE it's silly!)

get in the ring > irritated tweets

Just saw GN'R in Philly last week and I was surprised how heavily they leaned on the Illusions. They played Double Talkin' Jive, You Could Be Mine, Civil War, Don't Cry, Live and Let Die, Knockin' on Heaven's Door, Estranged, Coma, and November Rain. Civil War and Double Talkin' Jive would both make my single disc Illusion. You Could Be Mine probably would too if just for the insane way that song ends.

fierce vignettes of depravity that burn with fire and passion

yesssss

Also "get in the ring" is catchy and fun. Not many other tracks with these qualities on these albums !

Xxxpost they kinda have to....not a huge discography

I think they could play Appetite in it's entirety or maybe a little bit more off of Lies. Duff's also the only one reminding us that the Spaghetti Incident? happened.

maybe a little bit more off of Lies.

"One in a Million" - if taken as an unreliable narrator with jumbled thoughts - is never more timely.

I have recently watched the Jon Brewer Documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/most-dangerous-band-in-the-world
some interesting stuff (considering I liked them at the time, as a teenager, but have never been a big fan and so never knew or cared much about them).

about the musical reasons of the split, although the Chinese Democracy project was the debacle we know, I can't help thinking Axl had a point since the "let's go back to the roots blues hard rock" approach of Slash seems pretty boring to me (as well as all the UYI bluesy hard rock tracks).
at least Axl's ideas and ambitions had something special, even on UYI.
also, putting aside his own tantrums, his position regarding the drugs excesses in the band were reasonable : maybe behind the crazy diva, there actually was someone intelligent and sensible !

xp

God, that is such a beautiful, dumb, catchy, racist piece of shit song. I loved to listen to that song when I was a kid, even though I was appalled by the words. Now that I'm older, it's absolutely unlistenable. Wish someone would cover it and change it up. Fuck Axl Rose.

xxpost I think Chinese Democracy is pretty rad and Axl was right to avoid the Bon Jovi and Poison route of making a "bluesy" album.

Wasn't "One in a Million" supposed to be seen through the eyes of someone from the Midwest (say Indiana) showing up in LA? If Axl was a brutal racist an meant every word in that song I doubt he'd wear NWA hats and play with a black drummer.

Yeah, I dunno. I mean, Slash's mom is black, too. I think Axl just epitomized ignorant white kid from the midwest more than any actual malice.

Racists can have black friends. Have you ever heard the phrase "You're one of the *good* ones" that they often employ?

Whether it was his own views or being a narrator, it was a poor choice to use the word and Axl should be eaten by wolves.

but not until after 7/29 cos that's when I see them.

lol

that's an old issue in literature that comes back regularly in pop (rock, rap, etc) but I don't understand why the authors of songs are supposed to mean everything that's expressed in their lyrics. it's a pretty unfair (not to say silly) criticism. why couldn't they portray a character or express other views ?
And I don't even like "One in Million" !

I don't think Randy Newman would be writing songs for kids movies if people believed he wasn't writing in character.

sure but there are also so many silly controversies accusing some artists or band of having misogynist/racist/antisemitic, etc lyrics without considering the authors might not express their own feelings/views in the songs.
anyway, it's an endless and hopeless issue. the media needs these controversies I guess !

this was his shitty defense of it at the time:

"I used words like police and niggers because you're not allowed to use the word nigger. Why can black people go up to each other and say, "Nigger," but when a white guy does it all of a sudden it's a big put-down. I don't like boundaries of any kind. I don't like being told what I can and what I can't say. I used the word nigger because it's a word to describe somebody that is basically a pain in your life, a problem. The word nigger doesn't necessarily mean black. Doesn't John Lennon have a song "Woman Is the Nigger of the World"? There's a rap group, N.W.A., Niggers with Attitude. I mean, they're proud of that word. More power to them. Guns N' Roses ain't bad. . . . N.W.A. is baad! Mr. Bob Goldthwait said the only reason we put these lyrics on the record was because it would cause controversy and we'd sell a million albums. Fuck him! Why'd he put us in his skit? We don't just do something to get the controversy, the press."

It's a really good song! That whistling melody in the beginning. The way the intro slams into the verse riff. The piano in the outro. Musically it's one of my favorite G'n'R songs.

I can understand and identify with One in a Million to the extent that it's about wanting to maintain your privacy and personal space when you're out in public. That's a pretty compelling subject. It could easily be about cat-calling. Doesn't make it jake that Axl uses the n-word or about 8 other things he said!

Los Angeles by X lyrically covers similar ground to One In A Million.

xxposts
yeah, his defence was clearly lame but I guess he was not educated enough to express his thoughts on that in a better way. and he was young also. not easy to tackle such complex and touchy issues when you're a 20something rockstar under pressure (one might argue he could have avoided going there, then !).
anyway, I don't know him but it doesn't seem like he's racist or homophobic.

going back to the UYI albums with this thread, I agree that "Locomotive" is a weird beast : the first part is okay but kinda messy and the ending has a great feeling. I like their funky tracks, though.
were there many other LA metal bands with that funky touch ? I have next to no idea about that scene...

One thing that surprised me in Duff's book is that when they were a local LA band before they got signed some of GN'R lived in the same shitty apartment complex as Sly Stone. Guess Sly was down on his luck financially as early as the mid eighties.

aw. that's sad. considering how shitty their apartment seemed to be... maybe he could have joined them !

"And on the keys Mr. Sly F'N Stone!"

"gimme some funk!"
https://media.giphy.com/media/6kYIDxnVIRmik/giphy.gif

they would have been named Guns n'Stone Roses !

going back to my question, it really doesn't seem very common for all these 80s sunset strip metal bands to incorporate some groove and funk in their sound.

how about an EP, then?

How about just a pile of 15 or 20 singles?

Anyway, Locomotive is awesome. I love Axl's insane syntax.