Chronic lyme is a personal subject for me, because it has effectively ruled my sister's life for the past 10 years. I haven't read the article yet, but I've read lots of other things about it, and she's been through the gamut of tests and treatments, skepticism and sometimes outright dismissal, and finds the entire idea of a "controversy" as to the existence of the thing that has made her life agony for months at a time infuriating. As do I. It is obviously true that the mechanisms and interplays that cause chronic lyme are still mysterious. It is also true that not all therapies work for everyone -- but there are therapies that work to one degree or another for a whole lot of people. But believe me, it is a very real thing.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 28 June 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
I mean, chronic lyme is the reason why she and her husband never had another child (fortunately, they'd had one before she got sick). It's the reason she has for months or years at a time had to give up playing the fiddle, which she loves. It's the reason that merely going to a part-time job can be exhausting and debilitating for her. This isn't a person who was ever sick much in her life before, she was an energetic, healthy, happy, busy mom and teacher until BAM.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 28 June 2013 14:44 (ten years ago) link
There shouldn't be any dismissal of the fact that she's sick. Whatever the cause of her suffering, the fact that she is suffering shouldn't be minimized.
The controversy is whether chronic infection with the Lyme spirochete is the cause of symptoms like that, and whether chronic antibiotic treatment is helpful and necessary.
We don't (and won't ever) fully understand the complexity of the body, especially since each person is in some ways different than everyone else. There will always be room for doubt and more questions to research.
What I look for as a neurologist is evidence of damage to the nervous system. Symptoms are an indication of potential damage but are not sufficient proof: many severe and persisting symptoms can arise from an otherwise normal nervous system. The patients I've seen with a diagnosis of chronic Lyme (not as common in Canada as in the US) have had normal examinations and tests (MRI, CSF, nerve conduction studies). In the absence of some indicator of how Lyme is damaging the nervous system (infection -> damage -> symptoms), there's no particular reason to believe it is the cause of the symptoms, at least from a neurological point of view.
This is a separate debate from the non-controversial evidence of acute/subacute Lyme infection causing neurological problems. There's a long list of neurological conditions that Lyme can cause, but they can be proven by the usual methods (damaged nerve function on electrical tests, inflammatory changes in spinal fluid, lesions on MRI, etc). Treatment of the infection is definitely helpful in those cases, which usually improve considerably but can leave residual neurological damage behind (scars in the brain or spinal card, etc).
It's good that there are treatments that your sister and others with similar symptoms have found helpful. I offer symptomatic treatment to patients whenever I can. Antibiotic treatment is not intended to be symptomatic but curative of the supposed underlying cause. When I'm not convinced that an infection is in fact the cause of the symptoms, I can't in good conscience recommend it.
― Plasmon, Friday, 28 June 2013 15:39 (ten years ago) link
I would argue that this is in fact a really unfortunate portrayal of common attitudes. First, it's actually not conducive to gay rights or gay dignity to act as though every close male relationship is necessarily a sexual or romantic relationship. But worse, this is subtly a perfect distillation of how your average liberal views gay people, as Muppets: sexless, harmless, inoffensive, childish, silly, and ultimately mere fodder for the condescending entertainment of straight people.Personally, I don't think that a group that has for decades labored against a brutally oppressive regime that humiliated them, assaulted them, and systematically denied them equal rights should be analogized to imaginary characters that have been built out of felt for the edutainment of children, nor that American liberalism's obsession with meaningless symbolism and empty uplift is a long-term strategy for success.
Personally, I don't think that a group that has for decades labored against a brutally oppressive regime that humiliated them, assaulted them, and systematically denied them equal rights should be analogized to imaginary characters that have been built out of felt for the edutainment of children, nor that American liberalism's obsession with meaningless symbolism and empty uplift is a long-term strategy for success.
― Mordy , Friday, 28 June 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
where is that from. i wrote "<3" as a response to that image earlier today but i actually think i agree with that quote.
― Treeship, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:16 (ten years ago) link
fre-fre-freddie
― Mordy , Friday, 28 June 2013 16:17 (ten years ago) link
I don't disagree with the quote, but the cover is really a play on the already widespread half-joking speculation that ernie and bert are a gay couple, speculation that is often fueled by the show's writing
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:19 (ten years ago) link
i think it's a bit ridiculous to take offense at being represented by "FELT characters designed for the EDUTAINMENT of CHILDREN" and to take offense at the use of "symbolism" in a magazine-cover illustration
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
there's a lot to agree with in that quote ("ultimately mere fodder") but
this is subtly a perfect distillation of how your average liberal views gay people, as Muppets: sexless
what?
liberals generally have the same stereotyped view everyone else does, that gay people (especially men) are leading this debauched life of continual grindr-initiated hookups. i know gay men that don't fit that pattern that are made to feel uncomfortable for not living up to this imaginary standard.
― eris bueller (lukas), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
ya i was gonna mention that as well
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
happy to defer to anyone better represented by the cover than I am but yeah: what Bert & Ernie stand in for on the cover is a couple who are a couple at home & can't/haven't come out publicly, being affectionate privately. this seems like a pretty good & funny read on them & on a big thing one could hope is changing with the news. it isn't untrue thatrepresentation iof coupescouples is important or is frequently subject to patronising interpretations but this is neat & exists in its own world successfully enough to be seem too terrible imo
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
phone; should read representation of couples
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
would've had less trouble with Big Bird and Snuffleupagus tbh
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:30 (ten years ago) link
freddie has this.... thing about "liberal representations of gay people"
― max, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:33 (ten years ago) link
it is like a lot of freddies things about 1/3 accurate and 2/3ds projection
"My father, a theater professor, introduced my siblings and me to queer people throughout our childhood, and the existence and acceptance of them was an assumed part of the landscape. And these people were queer, in the old sense, not the sanitized, sexless TV gays that are the dominant image of homosexuality today. "
― max, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:35 (ten years ago) link
should have been beavis & butthead
― johnny crunch, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:35 (ten years ago) link
in all fairness, they have lived together for decades. they probably are pretty sexless by now. hahahaha! #rayromano4ever
― scott seward, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
it would have been more on point to show E&B working on a joint tax return
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:44 (ten years ago) link
"Ernie! There are people here from The New Yorker magazine!"
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
i think freddie suffers from a problem endemic to the liberal community; he's more principled than he is coherent.
― Mordy , Friday, 28 June 2013 16:51 (ten years ago) link
"Bert and Ernie clearly love each other. But does Ernie suck Bert’s cock? I don't think so."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/06/28/bert_and_ernie_on_new_yorker_cover_for_gay_marriage_a_terrible_way_to_commemorate.html
― scott seward, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
a lotta "thoughts" out there about this. #chooseyourbattles
― scott seward, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
#crazyforhashtagstoday
well he does now, in my mind, and I am really not happy about that slate.com
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
http://www.authenticmanprogram.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/bert-ernie-banana.png
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 17:11 (ten years ago) link
they aren't even the gayest muppets. you got kermit, grover, the count...
― scott seward, Friday, 28 June 2013 17:13 (ten years ago) link
statler & waldorf
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Friday, 28 June 2013 17:13 (ten years ago) link
Dr. Honeydew and Beaker
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
ernie has never struck me as gay. bert, yes. maybe ernie was an old high school friend and he just ended up with bert and bert likes having help with the rent? seems more likely.
― scott seward, Friday, 28 June 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
So Ernie's just a boy who helps with the rent. A "rentboy," if you will.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, if anybody in the Henson universe is a gay couple, it's these two.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Friday, 28 June 2013 17:39 (ten years ago) link
Are there any openly gay couples on Sesame Street? Honest question. At this point there should be.
― Treeship, Friday, 28 June 2013 18:26 (ten years ago) link
― scott seward, Friday, June 28, 2013 1:13 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I always though kermit was just afraid of sex
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
there is a character with a parent in prison, which is both awesome and crushingly depressing in what it represents
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 June 2013 18:57 (ten years ago) link
did you ever see the very special episode prequel where the muppet dad kills grover
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
tbh i'm just glad it wasn't peppermint patty and marcie
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:03 (ten years ago) link
elmo was probably behind the whole thing
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:03 (ten years ago) link
i can see both sides of the "should bert & ernie be appropriated like this" coin enough that what really annoys me about the new yorker cover is that a) they're admiring a shot of the ENTIRE supreme court and b) that the appropriating is being done by the new yorker
― da croupier, Friday, 28 June 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
I realize it's not totally my place to say, but this ultimately comes off as another Thing To Be Vaguely Outraged About On The Internet
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link
i.e. blog fodder
blfodder, as you say
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
imo the cartoon character (or puppet) that will retroactively be written as a "gay character" will probably be Bart Simpson, not Bert and Ernie
― Cunga, Friday, 28 June 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
Like, a liberal, pro-gay rights publication celebrated a victory for gay rights with a humorous cover that may have been just like a hair off in tone and allegedly perpetuates a stereotype of gay people that almost no one, especially liberals, really has.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:14 (ten years ago) link
that people still get their news from network TV in 2013?
― Cunga, Friday, 28 June 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
btw, you know who else codes as gay to me? that Neil Patrick Harris fella
― Cunga, Friday, 28 June 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
what really annoys me about the new yorker cover is that a) they're admiring a shot of the ENTIRE supreme court
That aspect hadn't quite occurred to me, but I do find it weird that they're looking at a still photo superimposed on a TV screen.
― Murder in the Rue McClanahan (jaymc), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:27 (ten years ago) link
what do you mean?
― congratulations (n/a), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
getting pretty deep into objections to an illustration of sesame street characters at this point, does anybody have issues with the decor, model of tv
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
just wait for my forthcoming gawker piece addressing exactly that
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link