tipping

does that mean you missed this Meanwhile, a bus driver on a daily route will not be tipped, for example, though he or she is working hard to serve the public. Policemen are not tipped except in the form of donations by ass-kissers to the “fraternal order” in exchange for a sticker that is supposed to confer preferential treatment by officers. Public servants are not tipped. bit?

the tipping conventions he cites seem v conventional not small bubble shmancy it may be overegging to say the complexity and pressure of tipping culture is paralysing but seems to me his argument is as it is always and for ever that employees should be renumerated in a regular and reliable way by their actual employers although this would indeed have the further payoff of a world that doesn't strike fear into the hearts of post office lifers brunching at holiday inns win-win

The guy has some points, but something about the overly hard sell, especially with the projection about the kind of people that are in favor of tipping makes me distrust him. He may be selling the elimination of tipping as a righteous blow for social justice (he didn't eliminate tipping, he just made it mandatory), but it looks to me like he found a way to give his kitchen staff a raise without putting any of his own money on the line. Restaurant types are genius at this.

Wait, did Ian Svenonius open a restaurant?

Yeah, that whole 80 percent of Americans work in the service industry thing is misleading. That many people work in the service sector, but not at restaurants and shit. Most are paid salary or hourly wages. I agree with him that the system is fucked, but the last sentence is idiotic.

or rhetoric

?

does that mean you missed this Meanwhile, a bus driver on a daily route will not be tipped, for example, though he or she is working hard to serve the public. Policemen are not tipped except in the form of donations by ass-kissers to the “fraternal order” in exchange for a sticker that is supposed to confer preferential treatment by officers. Public servants are not tipped. bit?

I did read that, but tbh, the whole opening section with the 'survey of tipping around the world' or w/e is super dicey and class-centric ('here's what world labor conditions look like from the perspective of me visiting as a rich tourist') and anyway has no impact on the conclusions he draws. He ostensibly knows about non-tipped service industry workers but they disappear when it comes to his 'vast circle jerk' model. The tone and preoccupations are all of the rich person obliged to tip or throwing around their money in cool bars with other people who have money; the rhetorical attempt to imagine it from the tipped employee's POV is pretty superficial IMO, and he really doesn't attempt to imagine the economics of lifer wait staff as opposed to people who all dabbled in it once and therefore like to imagine themselves good tippers now that they are elite bloggers or music personalities or whatever, which seems to be his 'typical' service industry person.

imagine the economics of lifer wait staff

idk that you need to 'imagine' a system that works in a lot of places

what does Svenonius even do for a living at this point? find it hard to believe he's in the lap of luxury to the extent that Dr C is trying to make out

Dr C is someone else

antiantitippers seem to have a kneejerk defensiveness as though antitippers are suggesting that workers who currently rely upon tips should receive less money from their work than they currently do why is this

i think another interesting way to examine tipping is comparing it to workers who earn a significant amount of their earnings from commissions and sales/earnings based bonuses.

both tipped employees and commission/bonus employees have the same relation to their employers -- that their wages are contingent on the success of the employer's products

there are likely bad things about a commission structure, too, but i suspect tipping encourages worse behavior for everyone because it is essentially a side transaction. if you give a bigger tip because you were comped a side, the equivalent would be slipping the car salesman money for throwing in tinted windows or something.

agreed.

Look, I basically just think this is a too-long and not-thought-out op-ed on the internet, not sure why we have to take seriously his proposal that tipped employees bear the responsibility for solving the system by destroying their own livelihood via refusing tips. It's a dumb idea that won't happen and wouldn't work, so I would like to think I could reject it without having to sign membership papers with the ''antiantitippers'' and bear the burden of all their supposed whatevers.

doctor casino have you ever listened to a nation of ulysses album?

no why, are you on the svenonian street team too?

how do their albums stack up to this article, lengthwise?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation_of_Ulysses#Political_concepts

Wow, twenty years ago he was in a band that wanted to fight the Man?? Then clearly nothing he says about tipping could ever be wrong! I take it all back!

i am saying the opposite: he is fun to indulge but he should be taken as a weird artist and not a serious essayist

Ahhhh, okay. Please accept the retraction of my knee-jerk sarcastic post.

np ;-)

but you really should listen to "plays pretty for baby" its life-changing

otm

pretty sure anyone over the age of 16 is not going to have his or her life changed by a nation of ulysses album, but maybe some ppl are more impressionable than others.

is this the thread where i brag that i was at a wedding earlier this year that IS officiated? he gave a great little talk, best officiant

....is it?

i think this is the thread where you brag about that, yeah

*unfurls mission accomplished banner*

I tipped less than 20% for rly bad service again last night (being seated w/o a beer list or a mention of the fact that the kitchen was closing in 10 minutes and also inattentive svc throughout the night) but it was still over 15% but I still felt guilt city abt it

how do you express dissatisfaction in a restrunt these days?

yelp review

i wouldn't do anything about it, service is service is service and one shouldn't feel entitled to good service, it's just something you subject yourself to when you eat at a sit down restaurant. when you tie the perceived quality of service to the amount of money you leave, you start getting into these issues of control using money and everything just starts to feel gross.

If I am paying $50 before tip for a burger, a calzone, and three beers then I feel like I should be like served competently though

like I'm not even asking you to sing me a song but just tell me that the kitchen's about to close and give me a list of drinks that you have svp

hah well I always ask about the kitchen when it's late-ish. that's because I'm neurotic tho

oh but she asked us "are you having dinner?" and we said yes!

service is service is service and one shouldn't feel entitled to good service, it's just something you subject yourself to when you eat at a sit down restaurant.

srsly?

yep

How about good food?

what is good food? *strokes chin*

Seeing how most places are very keen to let newly arrived late diners know about the kitchen countdown, I'm sure the kitchen staff were more pissed off with this waitress than you could ever be. Still, it's a no-brainer for staff to provide all the menus you need at the outset, and save herself a bunch of bother by quickly getting on top of both food and drinks orders when it's that late in the evening's service. The low tip is your right here, and isn't a problem.

service is service is service and one shouldn't feel entitled to good service ... when you tie the perceived quality of service to the amount of money you leave, you start getting into these issues of control using money and everything just starts to feel gross.

I like this.

reminded this weekend that every restaurant on south beach automatically adds 18% gratuity because of europeans

rme at dayo

"it's just something you subject yourself to when you sit down at a restaurant"

yes when i walk into a restaurant gross to give them my business i'm gross thinking "do with me what you will"

i worked a service job past few months, we gave p awful service and received low tips but we stole lots of money from the till every shift so it worked out

i mean look i am the most patient person in the world when it comes to waitstaff, their jobs suck, but look, there are things you can do to not get a great tip from me. spill my drink on me and not take it off the bill? go out for a cigarette break while i wait 30 minutes for my food, and don't wash your hands? yeah, you're getting 10%. you have to do something pretty dumb, and have a don't-give-a-shit-attitude about it, but there are ways to get a shitty tip from me

having lived in thailand this summer has further made me appreciate any service at all tho, things are different over there

go out for a cigarette break while i wait 30 minutes for my food, and don't wash your hands?

pfft give me a break dog

sure here's 5 bucks, which is 10% of my bill

do tell us of the slights you suffered in thailand