in these, the waning days of stern: 2013-2014 NBA regular season thread (part 1)

Monta Ellis rejuvenating Dirk Nowitzki's career is maybe the most surprising thing about this season. Def. one of the coolest.

i do not believe there to be a causal link

LOVE lillard taking those pullup 3s

This guy is just so cold-hearted confidant since his first day in the league like idk never seen anything like it.

Monta Ellis PER now below 20, seems to be regressing back to the mean

re hibbert's self portrait iirc jalen said that it would have been a gift that he is displaying as a favour to the artist

also remember noah claiming that kg only shits on rookies and euros

knix down 37-11

At home!

also remember noah claiming that kg only shits on rookies and euros

― micah, Sunday, December 8, 2013 12:20 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and noah

knew that Nets game was a fluke

Celtics almost accidentally doubling up Knicks early in this 4th, now just your normal at-home 40pt blowout for the Knicks nbd.

noah is a quasi euro. actually the fact that he tries to rep like he's just another NYC kid when his mom was Miss Sweden and dad Europop star prob checks all KG's "fuck THIS guy" buttons.

ha yes

celtics need to stop winning games this is uncool, suspend stevens

cool game on NBAtv now, lakers/raps 2005. peak kobe, young bosh

thought that might be the 86 point game, but i guess that was 06

jalen rose looks really bad in this game

we should've polled how many games wade will sit out this year, today he'll miss his 11th of miami's 21 total games played.

Monta Ellis PER now below 20, seems to be regressing back to the mean

― 乒乓, Sunday, 8 December 2013 13:54 (9 hours ago) Permalink

that's his highest PER in 6 years. 6th highest PER among starting SGs this year.

Wes Matthews' PER is lower, which say a lot about how bad PER is, really:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=per&c1comp=gt&c1val=18&c2stat=gs&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

his usage rate is 17%, dude

Wow why does Hollinger hate Wes Matthews so much

Why did he rig the system against Wes

free wes matthews

so inefficient of him

important poll please vote

how will lebron james announce his new contract in 2014?

so its misnamed who cares especially if you just call it per, just think of it as per

omg you still don't get it this is like when you were saying afflalo was the best player ever

(notwithstanding the fact that afflalo actually is having an amazing year this year)

Who's Afflacko

ben afflacko how u like them apples

omg you still don't get it this is like when you were saying afflalo was the best player ever

(notwithstanding the fact that afflalo actually is having an amazing year this year)

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 8, 2013 11:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

uh IIRC you agreed with me in the end

it pained you but you did begrudgingly admit it. Even busted out the dreaded Matt Armstrong otm.

if you make a high % of your shots/get a lot of assists/etc it's pretty obvious why using a high percentage of your team's possessions would be a good thing; if you're gonna be kyle korver and never miss but take like 3 shots a game and do nothing else it's p obvious why this is not ideal

wes has been shooting the lights out but he basically only scores. dude's averaging less than two assists a game. prob explains the PER thing.

i do not recall the specifics of the debate but i will disagree with myself if i said something contradicting the main point of my last several posts

I just did a search for "matt armstrong otm" and k3v posts make up the first three

guys guys never mind that important breaking news im not sure what a shooting shirt is but @mcten: LAL players will have Twitter handles on back of their shooting shirts

if you make a high % of your shots/get a lot of assists/etc it's pretty obvious why using a high percentage of your team's possessions would be a good thing; if you're gonna be kyle korver and never miss but take like 3 shots a game and do nothing else it's p obvious why this is not ideal

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 8, 2013 11:15 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Affalo is doing the same fucking shit he did at the same or slightly better rates and his PER is about twice as high because his usage is about twice as high. If you were gonna pick an example of how PER is a dumb stat he's a good one. It overcompensates for high usage.

...

matt there are gonna be warm ups or something with twitter handles on them this very night and instead for the millionth time youre going to pretend you dont know why usage might be worth considering when evaluating players, your priorities are all out of wack

the exact same (good) production at a higher usage rate is not more efficient, it's just more useful.

matt is the king of comparing players to hakeem olajuwon based on their per 36 min data so i don't think we're gonna find a meeting place here

basketball is not baseball where everyone gets their turn at bat, it's a sport where you want to maximize the expected value of every possession and you can actually control some things, there's no rule that says your worst players need looks. if you're a player who can shoot a 65% ts%, it is to your team's benefit if you use up as many possessions as possible, because if you're not taking thos shots/otherwise using those possessions, someone else (of lesser value) is

just forget about the word efficient and everything will make sense, he shouldnt have used effeinct in the name for per

matt there are gonna be warm ups or something with twitter handles on them this very night and instead for the millionth time youre going to pretend you dont know why usage might be worth considering when evaluating players, your priorities are all out of wack

― lag∞n, Sunday, December 8, 2013 11:27 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

usage is totally worth considering, which is why it was obvious Afflalo was really efficient player because of how well he played with low usage!

god matt fine think of PER as like a per-possession amount of value created, you're just caviling over the definition of "efficiency" because you think it implies a personal denominator rather than one in a team context, which is what the stat is used for

god matt fine think of PER as like a per-possession amount of value created, you're just caviling over the definition of "efficiency" because you think it implies a personal denominator rather than one in a team context, which is what the stat is used for

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 8, 2013 11:32 PM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

his ORTG was higher in 10-11.

matt there are gonna be warm ups or something with twitter handles on them this very night and instead for the millionth time youre going to pretend you dont know why usage might be worth considering when evaluating players, your priorities are all out of wack

― lag∞n, Sunday, December 8, 2013 11:27 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

usage is totally worth considering, which is why it was obvious Afflalo was really efficient player because of how well he played with low usage!

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 8, 2013 6:30 PM (1 minute ago)

right and the point is per-shot "efficiency" does not tell the whole story about how valuable a player is or else we'd just use TS% or something, being able to create offense and do so ~~~efficiently~~~ is important

i don't really buy O/DRTG too much, it's such a lineup dependent stat

Impressive use of the word cavil. Nice

now obv there are huge problems with PER, for one thing it essentially ignores defense that isn't steals/blocks, and is probably based on old data since hollinger hasn't updated it in a while i don't think, but it's a useful go-to stat for the things that do show up in the box score

overall nice argument by kev there excellent defense of efficiency in per

cavil is a cool word that i try to use a lot thx