Going To Law School

1P 3tigation

B.L.A.M., did you just take the CA bar? Maybe I am thinking someone else.

I did, I did. Results in a little over two months. I really have no idea what I'll do if I don't pass. I busted my ass for three months, working full time for two of those, and don't feel like I could have done more. Plus, I like my job and would like to get paid at an associate level as opposed to a "law clerk" level. Which sucks.

My big fear with going to a school like American (or Cardozo, etc.) is ... is it really worth it to take on so much debt? I got no money at AU-WCL, despite my numbers being like ... 90% there, and Fordham'll probably give me the ole WL since I'm 25% there.

So it's like ... 180k of debt for a slight chance of a new career? Or are the naysayers overdoing the doom mongering?

i don't enjoy paying $1200/month in loans

American is in an inner-ring burb, ie the outskirts of DC. yes, you can get downtown, and no you're not gonna be living it up all the time, but it's not the city, even by DC standards.

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:13 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

No, it's inside city lines, although I guess "outskirts" is probably still accurate

it's like five blocks from the MD/DC line

yup. A lot of DC looks like that area though, and even some of the poorer parts just look like poorer versions of it.

yes, I know it's in the city lines. so is an urban core that it bears no resemblance to. the parts of DC that look like it are also not urban in the NYC sense. there is very little other than residential or institutional use in the 'neighborhood'. my recollection is that if you're not using a bus, it's an awkward hike to the metro.

I thought there was a stop on the red line right by AU

there's a stop called Tenleytown-AU, but it's not "right by" AU

I guess maybe it's not that close to the campus though - I never actually had reason to go to the campus from the metro or vice versa

it would be like a fifteen/twenty minute walk to the metro from the AU law library

actually I never had any reason to go to the campus period. My middle school was near the tenleytown stop though. My house was near...nothing.

They say the recession might not end til late 2009 or 2010... holing up in law school might seem like a good idea, but maybe it'll be better just to be a slacker? Law school debt seems like it's ... life crippling, especially if it's not at one of those big time schools.

I read something recently about how the demographic bubble is finally going to subside in college admissions in a few years and schools are going to start getting less competitive again. I guess several more years after that it might start to subside in law school admissions too, and then after that maybe it will start to subside in the profession too. But I'm guessing that'll probably take too long to really have any impact on my career.

hi, the debt does feel life crippling

you need a life/sanity crippling job to pay off the life crippling debt

Seriously ... 1200/month dude. My debt right now: 0. If I wanted to live in a $200 shit box in super-chic and hip Berlin for 2 years, I could. Then, get another crappy writing gig. Of course, it won't ever, ever lead to a stable life or any kind-of future, but man. I am interested in doing law, but the money it costs and your career prospects afterwards seem completely disconnected.

I have a lot of family and family friends who are successful lawyers ... state department, Cisco Systems, Big Law, etc. Maybe that would help the job prospect thing.

Hats off to you IP people. After grad school (biomedical) I went to work for the IP department of a big pharma co., thinking "hey I knows science and I likes to read and write hey how 'bout I just be patent lawyer and yeah pharma will pay for me to get J.D. at night yay skippy."

I lasted about two months. If I ever, ever, ever have to look at another patent filing again it will be far too fucking soon. Funny, I thought that being a good scientific writer would help me when it came to preparing patent stuff--could not have been MORE wrong.

Also: big pharma IP lawyers as douchebags SHOCKAH

Tough call. You can get a good education anywhere. IMO, going to law school solely for the money is a poor risk. I think you should go out of a desire to do something you can only do with a law degree.

There's a great little book by Michael Melcher called The Creative Lawyer about finding satisfaction in the law. Life-changing.

ILX lawyer roll call:

me
gabbneb
felicity
Hunt3r
Daniel, Esq?

-- cutty, Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

Also:

Eisbaer
Jenny (who previously posted on this thread as Party Time Country Female)

thanks.xls

I <3 jaymc for real.

Yes, you do.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/477683955_1d51e07cd3_m.jpg

you two are so cuet

LOLphones

I will definitely check out that book - thanks for the rec.

BTW how good are the prospects for someone interested in the non-scientific/patent side of IP (copyright-related stuff, etc.)?

that's what i was interested in. you and everbody else.

the IP-only firms want tech degrees so EVERYONE can handle patent work if it comes up, even if you are only aiming to to soft-IP (C and TM)

so your only way in is usually getting a summer associate position at a big law firm because the boutique IP firms usually do not hire graduates.

soft-IP (C and TM)

I'm more interested in soft-p and c on the t

but yeah, I'm kind of going in prepared to take a second or third choice field.

the IP-only firms want tech degrees so EVERYONE can handle patent work if it comes up, even if you are only aiming to to soft-IP (C and TM)

You mean on the deal side, right? Or do you mean that on the litigation-side IP firms won't hire you unless you have a technical degree?

Melcher's blog isn't half bad, either.

I'm sure others can speak better to this, but my understanding is the non-technical IP work at BIglaw firms is relatively limited - you'll find a couple of trademark lawyers here and there, with larger concentrations at a few places, so the jobs aren't going to come to you the way other biglaw positions might. Is it something you think might be interesting, or is it the thing you really want to do?

felicity's post above is OTM.

It's a thing that I initially got interested in because of my interest in music and the music industry - probably sim to cutty. But I'm not dead set on it at all.

Dare to dream cutty and Hurting. I don't recommend going to Big LOLaw for music work. I'd learn the business, get any kind of law job for a couple years, then find your spot.

(Mind you, the labels are all going to hell in a handbasket anyway. The survivors will be the lawyers who understand advanced media.)

what music industry

also what's my dream, i work for NYC, in no way related to IP

I dunno. What is it?

you said dare to dream as if i entertained the idea of working in music law. that was never the case because i was in the music industry as an artist and wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

if i were to say there is a dream it probably would be employed as a GC for a tech/new media company...

the video game industry for instance

"interactive media"

Then do it for 20 minutes a day -- as it says in Melcher's book.

if i were to say there is a dream it probably would be employed as a GC for a tech/new media company...

Now that would a cool legal job. Good work if you can get it.

i havent read the book so maybe im missing something, but doing the work for 20 minutes a day doesn't do anything for my resume really

I think the theory is that you supposed to spend the 20 minutes either thinking about what you'd rather be doing or taking steps from A to B.

ah, i get it. i will read the book though, i swear.

i am also considering sticking with NYC, climbing various ladders and somehow ending up working for bicycle initiatives within the DOT