B.L.A.M., did you just take the CA bar? Maybe I am thinking someone else.
I did, I did. Results in a little over two months. I really have no idea what I'll do if I don't pass. I busted my ass for three months, working full time for two of those, and don't feel like I could have done more. Plus, I like my job and would like to get paid at an associate level as opposed to a "law clerk" level. Which sucks.
― B.L.A.M., Thursday, 13 March 2008 13:41 (sixteen years ago) link
My big fear with going to a school like American (or Cardozo, etc.) is ... is it really worth it to take on so much debt? I got no money at AU-WCL, despite my numbers being like ... 90% there, and Fordham'll probably give me the ole WL since I'm 25% there.
So it's like ... 180k of debt for a slight chance of a new career? Or are the naysayers overdoing the doom mongering?
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 13 March 2008 13:53 (sixteen years ago) link
i don't enjoy paying $1200/month in loans
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 13:57 (sixteen years ago) link
American is in an inner-ring burb, ie the outskirts of DC. yes, you can get downtown, and no you're not gonna be living it up all the time, but it's not the city, even by DC standards.
-- gabbneb, Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:13 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link
No, it's inside city lines, although I guess "outskirts" is probably still accurate
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 13:57 (sixteen years ago) link
it's like five blocks from the MD/DC line
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 13 March 2008 13:59 (sixteen years ago) link
yup. A lot of DC looks like that area though, and even some of the poorer parts just look like poorer versions of it.
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:04 (sixteen years ago) link
yes, I know it's in the city lines. so is an urban core that it bears no resemblance to. the parts of DC that look like it are also not urban in the NYC sense. there is very little other than residential or institutional use in the 'neighborhood'. my recollection is that if you're not using a bus, it's an awkward hike to the metro.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:20 (sixteen years ago) link
I thought there was a stop on the red line right by AU
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:21 (sixteen years ago) link
there's a stop called Tenleytown-AU, but it's not "right by" AU
― gabbneb, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:24 (sixteen years ago) link
I guess maybe it's not that close to the campus though - I never actually had reason to go to the campus from the metro or vice versa
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:25 (sixteen years ago) link
it would be like a fifteen/twenty minute walk to the metro from the AU law library
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:27 (sixteen years ago) link
actually I never had any reason to go to the campus period. My middle school was near the tenleytown stop though. My house was near...nothing.
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:30 (sixteen years ago) link
They say the recession might not end til late 2009 or 2010... holing up in law school might seem like a good idea, but maybe it'll be better just to be a slacker? Law school debt seems like it's ... life crippling, especially if it's not at one of those big time schools.
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link
I read something recently about how the demographic bubble is finally going to subside in college admissions in a few years and schools are going to start getting less competitive again. I guess several more years after that it might start to subside in law school admissions too, and then after that maybe it will start to subside in the profession too. But I'm guessing that'll probably take too long to really have any impact on my career.
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link
hi, the debt does feel life crippling
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 15:02 (sixteen years ago) link
you need a life/sanity crippling job to pay off the life crippling debt
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 15:03 (sixteen years ago) link
Seriously ... 1200/month dude. My debt right now: 0. If I wanted to live in a $200 shit box in super-chic and hip Berlin for 2 years, I could. Then, get another crappy writing gig. Of course, it won't ever, ever lead to a stable life or any kind-of future, but man. I am interested in doing law, but the money it costs and your career prospects afterwards seem completely disconnected.
I have a lot of family and family friends who are successful lawyers ... state department, Cisco Systems, Big Law, etc. Maybe that would help the job prospect thing.
― burt_stanton, Thursday, 13 March 2008 15:06 (sixteen years ago) link
Hats off to you IP people. After grad school (biomedical) I went to work for the IP department of a big pharma co., thinking "hey I knows science and I likes to read and write hey how 'bout I just be patent lawyer and yeah pharma will pay for me to get J.D. at night yay skippy."
I lasted about two months. If I ever, ever, ever have to look at another patent filing again it will be far too fucking soon. Funny, I thought that being a good scientific writer would help me when it came to preparing patent stuff--could not have been MORE wrong.
― quincie, Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link
Also: big pharma IP lawyers as douchebags SHOCKAH
― quincie, Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:53 (sixteen years ago) link
Tough call. You can get a good education anywhere. IMO, going to law school solely for the money is a poor risk. I think you should go out of a desire to do something you can only do with a law degree.
There's a great little book by Michael Melcher called The Creative Lawyer about finding satisfaction in the law. Life-changing.
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:56 (sixteen years ago) link
ILX lawyer roll call:
me gabbneb felicity Hunt3r Daniel, Esq?
-- cutty, Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link
Also:
Eisbaer Jenny (who previously posted on this thread as Party Time Country Female)
― jaymc, Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:59 (sixteen years ago) link
thanks.xls
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I <3 jaymc for real.
― quincie, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:04 (sixteen years ago) link
Yes, you do.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/477683955_1d51e07cd3_m.jpg
― jaymc, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:06 (sixteen years ago) link
you two are so cuet
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:07 (sixteen years ago) link
LOLphones
― quincie, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:28 (sixteen years ago) link
I will definitely check out that book - thanks for the rec.
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:39 (sixteen years ago) link
BTW how good are the prospects for someone interested in the non-scientific/patent side of IP (copyright-related stuff, etc.)?
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:40 (sixteen years ago) link
that's what i was interested in. you and everbody else.
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:52 (sixteen years ago) link
the IP-only firms want tech degrees so EVERYONE can handle patent work if it comes up, even if you are only aiming to to soft-IP (C and TM)
so your only way in is usually getting a summer associate position at a big law firm because the boutique IP firms usually do not hire graduates.
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:53 (sixteen years ago) link
soft-IP (C and TM)
I'm more interested in soft-p and c on the t
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:55 (sixteen years ago) link
but yeah, I'm kind of going in prepared to take a second or third choice field.
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:56 (sixteen years ago) link
You mean on the deal side, right? Or do you mean that on the litigation-side IP firms won't hire you unless you have a technical degree?
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:57 (sixteen years ago) link
Melcher's blog isn't half bad, either.
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 17:57 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm sure others can speak better to this, but my understanding is the non-technical IP work at BIglaw firms is relatively limited - you'll find a couple of trademark lawyers here and there, with larger concentrations at a few places, so the jobs aren't going to come to you the way other biglaw positions might. Is it something you think might be interesting, or is it the thing you really want to do?
felicity's post above is OTM.
― gabbneb, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:12 (sixteen years ago) link
It's a thing that I initially got interested in because of my interest in music and the music industry - probably sim to cutty. But I'm not dead set on it at all.
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Dare to dream cutty and Hurting. I don't recommend going to Big LOLaw for music work. I'd learn the business, get any kind of law job for a couple years, then find your spot.
(Mind you, the labels are all going to hell in a handbasket anyway. The survivors will be the lawyers who understand advanced media.)
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:22 (sixteen years ago) link
what music industry
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:22 (sixteen years ago) link
also what's my dream, i work for NYC, in no way related to IP
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:23 (sixteen years ago) link
I dunno. What is it?
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:24 (sixteen years ago) link
you said dare to dream as if i entertained the idea of working in music law. that was never the case because i was in the music industry as an artist and wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
if i were to say there is a dream it probably would be employed as a GC for a tech/new media company...
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:26 (sixteen years ago) link
the video game industry for instance
"interactive media"
Then do it for 20 minutes a day -- as it says in Melcher's book.
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:29 (sixteen years ago) link
Now that would a cool legal job. Good work if you can get it.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:30 (sixteen years ago) link
i havent read the book so maybe im missing something, but doing the work for 20 minutes a day doesn't do anything for my resume really
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:33 (sixteen years ago) link
I think the theory is that you supposed to spend the 20 minutes either thinking about what you'd rather be doing or taking steps from A to B.
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:37 (sixteen years ago) link
ah, i get it. i will read the book though, i swear.
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:38 (sixteen years ago) link
i am also considering sticking with NYC, climbing various ladders and somehow ending up working for bicycle initiatives within the DOT
― cutty, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:39 (sixteen years ago) link
Right on. I am so proud of the bike parking in my old nabe, Bedford and N. 7th.
― felicity, Thursday, 13 March 2008 18:40 (sixteen years ago) link