Can You Force Yourself To Like A Record Through Blunt-Force Repetition?

to flip it on its head - i reckon that lots of the rationale behind not-liking the things we don't like is extra-musical too

OK! You can listen to Astral Weeks 22 times in the next week, then. Perfect.

I'm considering one album that's pretty much in 'the canon' that I've never really liked, in fact I struggled to find anything appealing in it at all, and I've owned it for 20 years. The only shame involved would be admitting that I don't get a 'canonical' album. Does that count? And it's not "Astral Weeks".

I doubt I'll last 22 plays but I'll give it a go just for you.

Man, 'reinforcement of sense of self' is my whole life. I'm always trying to finalize my taste, assert unequivocally and for all time that this is what I like and I'm going to spend the next year listening to it exclusively and become the world's biggest expert or whatever. That never comes close to panning out, I'm invariably off on something new the next week.

OK, I get what you're saying, NV - lots of ppl seem to not like particular music because they don't want to be The Kind Of Person That Likes That Music. I completely understand that mindset, and certainly did hold it in my late 20s/early 30s before outgrowing it. That's one of the good things about being treated as a middle aged woman - since you are presumed to have no taste, you can therefore have *any* taste without embarrassment.

I chose Interpol originally for the specific reason that they're the kind of thing I should like according to demographics & peer pressure, but just don't. (Though maybe "gawd indie-rock image bands from NYC are so tedious" is another "Kind Of Person I Am" assertion in terms of abandoning the person I used to be?) But I think it's a genuine "I just don't like this" because all my friends liking them didn't get me to like them; them being hott didn't get me to like them; one of my favourite musicians joining the band didn't get me to like the. What will it take to get me to like them?

Other people can do the experiment for NV's reasons, or for whatever reasons.

For me repetition doesn't lull me into surrender; repetition enhances a record's strengths, reveals its weaknesses in greater relief (or MORE weaknesses), or gets me to listen to instrumental, melodic, or vocal nuances I missed the first time. Many singles I review get middling scores only to wind up on my top twenty charts because I was wrong the first time (it happens more often with singles than albums; these days I rarely change my mind about albums more than once a year). A recent example: radio got me singing along to OneRepublic's "Counting Stars"

Sorry, Rob, but you *do* have to say what the record is. ;)

bb what do you think of BMRC?

(Though you do not have to say what the record is until the very end, when you reveal whether your opinion has or hasn't changed?)

BMRC or Dandy Warhols are 2 bands I thought I should like when they came out but didnt (apart from that one awesome song dandy warhols did)

Black Metal Rotorcycle Club?

haha

you know who i meant

Barents Music Resource Centre? Didn't they sue Dead Kennedys?

well, sure. it's the only reason "trout mask replica" has fans.

willing to do this btw, although be warned, Heart 106.2 FM at a former workplace of mine did not make me enjoy the Black-Eyed Peas, James Blunt or Maroon 5 any more than I did at first, despite quite some persistence

I will let the august minds of ILM choose something they thing I'd ordinarily be v bigoted about

*think ffs

james blunt obv, I assume you've only heard the singles which in no way represent what he's capable of

can you force yourself to like a blunt through blunt-force repetition

No, that's not how it works. You have to choose something that you already know you don't like. I don't think it works if other people choose for you.

ffs I almost had him listening to a james blunt album

Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti, LJ. You're always dismissive of them.

I'd really rather if this thread didn't degenerate into "LOL it would be funny if X listened to Y" or people trying to get others to take on their particular baby. The idea, if there is one, is challenging yourself on your preconceptions,, not being sold on stuff (or pushed into for a joke) by others. That just strikes me as kinda lazy.

i find the thought of someone doing this pretty pathetic. i used to do it when i was a kid and my entire music library consisted of like 6 cd's. if i bought one i didn't like i would still listen to it a hundred times because there was nothing else to do. and yeah, eventually you do get hooked in a weird way... i guess if you were feeling burnt out on your music it could be a fascinating experiment. but there's so much good music to listen to it's hard to imagine an adult finding time to do this

That's one of the good things about being treated as a middle aged woman - since you are presumed to have no taste, you can therefore have *any* taste without embarrassment.

haha that's kind of awesome :)

I suspect anyone hired to master or remix a record does this as an occupational burden

I find the idea of dictating to adults what experiments they should or shouldn't find the time for pretty pathetic, myself, to be honest.

so there's no chance of you ever listening to a jazz record due to your hatred of that cymbal sound? :)

I'm going with my first impulse as being the right one.

I'm torn. There's the 'canonical" album I can't abide, or there's an album I know I hate and I'm listening to it at the moment, and the thought of having to hear it 22 times fills me with such horror that the canonical choice seems like an easier option.

I say do the canonical one coz I want you to like it, but go with what you feel.

Why not remix it so it is better? I wonder if this was impetus behind grey album.

The church organ solo at 13 minutes has made me turn off my alternative choice. Canonical choice for me then.

Was it Close to the Edge?

Correct!

My experience of being subjected to 'Mambo Number 5' and 'Livin' La Vida Loca' several times a day via the radio while working as a painter and decorator in 1999 suggests to me that there's no way I can grow to like a record by repetition. Hate even more, maybe, but not like. However, I'm prepared to give it a go.

I might try this with Zappa or the Residents. That's the closest to visceral aversion I get with music.

I'm going to have to scour second hand shops tomorrow because iTunes wants £7.99 and I'm not paying that for an experiment!

I suspect anyone hired to master or remix a record does this as an occupational burden

This was my thought. I don't think repetition on its own will force anybody to like a record, but when that record placed in new contexts (esp. film and commercial) it'll take on new shapes. [insert personal anecdote]

Is this cheating?
https://m.soundcloud.com/rc428/side-1-x-100
The link to it said this makes Beatles sound like residents

I'm now going through my canonical choice and already feel I was unfair on it 20 years ago and quite like it already. So that's out of the window too. Drat.

I'm going to have to scour second hand shops tomorrow because iTunes wants £7.99 and I'm not paying that for an experiment!

used copies of Turn On The Bright Lights are currently going for 42p on amazon

God I hate Amazon and don't even want to give them commission on 42p so I'll try the charity shop first but cheers!

Rob, keep going. I've listened to that album well over 100 times & find new things to love each time.

I'd really rather if this thread didn't degenerate into "LOL it would be funny if X listened to Y" or people trying to get others to take on their particular baby. The idea, if there is one, is challenging yourself on your preconceptions,, not being sold on stuff (or pushed into for a joke) by others. That just strikes me as kinda lazy.

― I'd rather be the swallow than a dick (Branwell Bell), Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is fair, but what if some people just aren't capable of challenging their preconceptions particularly well? or to put it another way, what if they hedge their bets a little and whether subconsciously or otherwise they pick something they have an inkling they *could* like? certainly i feel like i'd do that if pressed to choose.

really imo this would be best suited by a randomised assignment of music. is there a way to generate a random spotify artist? :D

lol or I could get really hard into Sublime *suddenly doesn't want to play any more*

Just go back through the 77 singles list and pick whatever artist you had the strongest "I just don't understand why people even like this!" reaction to.

That'd be Betty Who. Ok, then. You win this round, Johnny Fever

i wanted him to try led zep :(

Not sure she has an album out yet, but that's the spirit.

Science says yes - http://www.joshuakennon.com/mental-model-mere-exposure-effect-or-the-familiarity-principle/

I know someone who just moves to the choruses of songs on Spotify, listens to those, and then moves on.

Daniel Kessler: That's really grinding to me. I feel like they're losing out. But that speaks to a greater thing about the ADD society we live in. I'm sure I don't listen to music as much as I used to, or if I do, I'll think "Oh, I'm going to do a 45-minute walk, I'll put on this record I'm religious about now." But I probably don't listen to records as much as I used to at home. And that's a shame. And even the patience to buy a record, at first, you don't really like it, or you're not sure about it. And four or five listens later, you're like, "This is my favourite record right now. Record of the year."

Those moments, I don't think people give that much of an opportunity without albums. If they don't like it, they flip through. And I feel like that's a shame. You can watch a film on a first viewing and say you didn't love it. But if you didn't get it at first doesn't mean you might not love it later. I can't tell you how many people said that about Turn On The Bright Lights when it came out. And I feel like if it came out five years or even three years later during the social media age, it would have been a different story. I know a lot of people who say, "I quite liked that record, But I didn't quite get it at first. And then later on I really, really liked it." But I don't think people would give it that opportunity now.

(Now really hoping Kessler didn't overhear me, talking about and having to explain this whole project at the aftershow. At least I didn't mention the fingerbanging. I swear to god I didn't mention the fingerbanging! Just Kanye.)

I hear music in two different contexts: individual tracks, and mixes

An individual piece I usually know in 5-10 seconds if i like it, music is mostly about sound and vibe for me - so its kind of like a photograph, if there isnt instant transportation, then i tend to pass, there are so many other records out there

But then mixes are different, a good dj makes records sound different, I can like records in a mix probably wouldnt have done otherwise because of the way they are mixed - hear them with different ears - and different tracks might reappear in other mixes so theyre not restricted to just the one static container with fixed order, but unexpected and fluid..so for me tracks can live as individual beings but also parts of many unknown fluid albums, perhaps a different life each time, repeated but different

The other thing ive ended up feeling is that listening to a new record because of the name on the sleeve (even/especially one i have other records by and like) is the feeling of a duty listen, or that i arrive with preconceptions and opinions before ive heard it - or the feeling of having to have an opinion. Ive been feeling the idea of letting things come to me more...organically? rather than me going to them

I'm interested in this actually. I might join in. I've been pretty vociferous in my hatred for certain songs and albums so may try those, or just go for something I purely don't understand - last year's LP by The Knife for example. But do I have time to listen to that 22 times in a week?

Listening to a *double* album 22 times in a week might be a bit much of an ask. Maybe if you did it with the single-disc version?

i've done this several (more) times btw
― this harmless group of nerds and the women that love them (forksclovetofu), Monday, January 27, 2014

I haven't read the thread but I'd say most bands that enter the public consciousness are generally competent and I can usually see the selling point. It's more the abundance of riches that allows me to be as selective as I want, while listening to as much music as I can, which automatically pushes out the rest.

If you scrap from existence everything I've ever liked, given enough time I am sure I can reconstruct a new taste. And so on and I am not sure if there is a parallel universe where the general quality of music is too low that I'd rather be horse-riding. At least, it's not easy to say if the bar is Chvrches, the yearly RYM top 10, 1000 GIECS, but I suppose there's one.

Warming up to a song happens plenty of times, but it's pretty clear it's not automatic. This would be disconcerting. The ability to say no, even if it's a vanilla "not for me" and you have no intense dislikes, is pretty fundamental to taste. Even if you factor in influences from friends, society, or the 70-year conspiracy from the industry to make us like things we don't really like.

I used to do this a lot in my late teens and 20's and while it works what you end up with is more a respectful admiration than full blown love, and that was fine when I wanted to become a music critic but in my 30's I'm too old for that shit.

Forks, which ones have worked for you? I haven't attempted this after my Animal Collective experiment.

I don't think this is the same necessarily, as it's an entire genre rather than "a record," but my first radio DJ job was a small town, very stodgy, easy listening format. At 19 I would have rather been rockin', but as my playlist ranged from Robert Goulet to The Carpenters I made the best of it and gradually began to appreciate much of it through repetition. I'm still not much for male crooners like Jerry Vale, but the instrumentals like The The Three Suns, and even the orchestral Percy Faith/101 Strings stuff I genuinely love. Turns out I was into the whole EZ revival decades ahead of the curve.

funny Animal Collective is the one band where this actually worked for me. they're one of my favorites now. didn't help that I started with all the wrong records though.

lately I've been pounding the two Black Country New Road albums trying to figure out why the hell RYM loves them so much but not really getting it. I think Daniel's point is a good one, once you reach a certain age you kinda run out of time for this. maybe fits into a broader discussion of how many albums one person really needs in their life.

There are albums I didn't like on first listen that I eventually grew to like, but that had little to do with listening to them over and over and more to do with me being older or otherwise changing tastes/listening habits. Of those records, though, I'm trying to think if there are any albums I hated that I grew to *love,* that I listen to a lot, and I'm not sure. There are some albums I've grown to like when they're playing but still don't love enough to play much.

Per Daniel_Rf this was definitely a part of my life up through my mid 20s, when i couldnt afford much music but it was still common for me to buy CDs and tapes without having heard them, and even if i didnt like them sheer inertia would mean that they would still spend months floating around inside my car, and when all the other CDs and tapes felt played-to-death i would put the duds on for variety's sake, and lo and behold i would often come to enjoy them through sheer familiarity & repetition. Nowadays though: lifes too short, fuck that.

I don’t think I’ve ever done this, really. Obviously, when I bought music as a kid if it wasn’t close to my taste I’d spend time with it to see if there was value - maybe 5-8 plays - but usually in those cases it wasn’t gonna happen and the tape or CD was just sold back to the store or given to a friend. And here I’m thinking about the ages of 12-22, that timeframe.

Today, I often know in less than a full play if a thing isn’t for me.

There’s also a middle ground where something has promise but (at the moment) I’m not interested enough to pursue it further, because of an assignment or other distraction. That stuff sometimes falls through the cracks.

I think we need to distinguish between giving something a chance and trying to force yourself to like something. Lots and lots of things that sounded kind of nothing special on first listen later revealed themselves to be full of unsuspected depths and became favorites, as much or more so than other things that appealed immediately. On the other hand, once you've given something a fair chance with enough listens, at different times of day, in different moods, etc, and it's still not clicking, I remain skeptical that you can really grow to love it. The one exception to that may be that you will sometimes grow to enjoy something because it reminds you of a certain time in your life when you heard it a lot, but I would maintain that the feeling of nostalgia is distinguishable from loving the music for its own sake.

There's a slightly different but related phenomenon, where there is something that you force yourself to *not* like because you think it's cheesy or too popular or dumb or whatever, but then after some period of time, usually after you've forgotten about it and then hear it again out of the blue after the passage of some time, maybe you stop fighting it and admit that you like it.

Forks, which ones have worked for you?

I think if I listen to anything long enough I will eventually love it or hate it (more often the latter). I don't really force myself to listen to stuff I don't like or am indifferent to, but this has happened a bunch with stuff friends or people I lived with listened to a lot.

Listening to Spotify with ads, still waiting on appreciating the vocal-fried "So you're listening to Spotify..." female announcer after a few hundred listens.

But that's just it: if you're going to derive any entertainment value out of an ad, it's almost certainly the first time you hear it. With movies or tv shows, the first viewing is almost always going to be most impactful.

But music works differently on the brain. There are definitely records where I know on first listen that I'm going to love it, but those are the exception. The peak is more like 50 listens, and usually the appreciation steadily deepens over that time. Granted, these have to be paced out, or I can easily burn out on it. So if this blunt force idea is possible, I think there's a window for it, and if it doesn't happen within that window, the record would just grow more and more annoying.

If you scrap from existence everything I've ever liked, given enough time I am sure I can reconstruct a new taste. And so on and I am not sure if there is a parallel universe where the general quality of music is too low that I'd rather be horse-riding.