scientology & celebrities

One of the things that struck me about Going Clear was how matter-of-fact it was about Travolta's sexuality.

Yeah, really. Just sort of mentions it matter of fact in passing, pretty early on.

did you read that new yorker story last year about the cult-like schoolmaster at a NYC prep school?

― socki (s1ocki), Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:48 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You mean the St. Ann's guy? Yeah, it's wild. That's where Lena Dunham went to school btw, and also a lot of other famous people iirc.

St. Ann's is, like, *the* NYC prep school, hello?

p sure it was horace mann---i just read the article. like, minutes ago, as a result of this thread

hmm, could be. NYMag reports on NY prep schools a lot, so I wouldn't be surprised if they profiled both.

the NYer piece on HM was called "The Master," and was specifically about one teacher (a Mr Berman) who had a pretty impressive (and destructive) cult of personality about him

ya horace mann

Oh fuck, just realized you said new yorker, not NYMag. Nm. There was a NYMag profile of the head of St. Ann's who also seems out there and mildly cultish.

Will read. I definitely think there is some common thread in these types -- they create an "insider" and "outsider" mentality, i.e. the people who are in our group are wise and the people outside are stupid. There is the potential for extreme praise combined with the threat of extreme criticism -- if you do things right it will prove that you are brilliant beyond imagination, but if you do things wrong you will face wrath. There's a method or system -- things should be read/learned in this particular way only, other ways are insufficient or stupid. There's always an enemy and a common cause.

Sometimes these figures get simplistically dismissed as "abusive" but I think this ignores the other half of the dynamic, namely that many people are attracted to this kind of a strong, dictatorial figure and WANT to take part in this sort of personality cult. This is what I meant about how even after the shine came off I still took part in it, even though I did so with more self-awareness. Because there's an intensity and thrill to having that kind of experience that's hard to duplicate. I think Wright's book recognizes this.

I'm only 60 pages in but damn, this book

hurting you really need to read that horace mann piece, it speaks directly to that

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/04/01/130401fa_fact_fisher

btw in googling for that horace mann piece, i came across a Cracked listicle thing that alerted me to the existence of the Delphian School

does it get mentioned in the book (which i've just started)?

fwiw in the case of my professor, I never felt truly "threatened" by him although I had some awe of him. I had a bit of a thick skin when it came to his sharp comments and never really felt hurt by them, taking them as a reflection of my failure to do work as hard as I should have rather than on me as a person. The people who disliked him seemed to also take him very personally.

An obvious difference between the prof and Hubbard is that my prof's literary methods ultimately had reason to them and made sense, whereas Hubbard was just making everything up as he went along.

yeah the book's closing was pretty good in the way it place scientology in with the whole history of new religious movements

― |$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅| (gr8080), Friday, January 24, 2014 3:22 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, i also like the nailing tom cruise to the wall part:

"Scientology orients itself toward celebrity, and by doing so, the church awards famousness a spiritual value. People who seek fame—especially in the entertainment industry—naturally gravitate to Hollywood, where Scientology is waiting for them, validating their ambition and promising recruits a way in. The church has pursued a marketing strategy that relies heavily on endorsements by celebrities, who actively promote the religion. They speak of the positive role that Scientology has played in their lives. When David Miscavige awarded Tom Cruise the Freedom Medal of Valor in 2004, he praised his effectiveness as a spokesperson, saying, “Across ninety nations, five thousand people hear his word of Scientology every hour.” It is difficult to know how such a figure was derived, but according to Miscavige, “Every minute of every hour someone reaches for LRH technology, simply because they know Tom Cruise is a Scientologist.” Probably no other member of the church derives as much material benefit from his religion as Cruise does, and consequently none bears a greater moral responsibility for the indignities inflicted on members of the Sea Org, sometimes directly because of his membership. Excepting Paul Haggis, no prominent Hollywood Scientologist has spoken out publicly against the widespread allegations of physical abuse, involuntary confinement, and forced servitude within the church’s clergy, although many such figures have quietly walked away."

Also from the book, it had totally passed by me - or just not stuck - that Greta Van Susteren is a major, senior CoS member.

whoa, for real?

This article from Harpers about a guy who infiltrates cults doesn't talk about Scientology but it's really good and apropos to thread:

http://harpers.org/archive/2013/11/the-man-who-saves-you-from-yourself/

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/David-Sullivan-PI-who-infiltrated-cults-dies-4924222.php
http://harpers.org/blog/2013/10/remembering-david-sullivan/

oh shit I missed all that. sad to miss out on those memoirs.

Buying Going Clr thanks to this thread, looking fwd to reading it.

Going Clear has been enlightening in that my evaluation of Hubbard has shifted from simple conman to genuine psycho

In a way I think all elaborate cons require at least some delusion on the part of the con man. Even ponzi schemers often start off with an investment scheme they think might work, then convince themselves "well, I'll just take money from these accounts until I find a way to pay it back."

Maybe not "all" but many. And I think starting an entire religion is such an enormous endeavor that it takes a certain amount of madness. It's not the kind of thing you can just do with cold rational calculation, I think.

sure, but really it's all the body horror/misogyny/sexual hysteria stuff that = psycho imo.

Going Clear has been enlightening in that my evaluation of Hubbard has shifted from simple conman to genuine psycho

― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:05 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ditto

yeah true, Hubbard was another level of crazy, not just self-deluded

one of the most interesting parts of going clear was the description of how dianetics evolved into scientology. basically, that hubbard didn't have control over the dianetics centers, and he didn't have a reason to keep people coming back after they were clear. it makes the whole 'starting a religion' thing seem like the natural next step, both from an ego standpoint as well as a commercial one.

ya i have no doubt that many of history's great con artists were either totally insane and/or suddenly found themselves in way over their head and made things much, much worse (jim jones)

Well, the genius development in the CoS is either overtly blackmailing members to comply using information gleaned from their audits or the threat of back-billing in the six-figures, or simply separating purportedly problem members from their friends and family and locking them in trailers in the desert. But especially the first part. Imagine if priests used information from confessions to coerce people into doing crazy shit? Or hell, pressuring them to tithe more or whatever?

I was impressed/shocked at how elaborate and devious their blackmail attempts are. The plot to take down Paula Cooper e.g.

if only Hubbard had managed to take over Rhodesia lol

Imagine if priests used information from confessions to coerce people into doing crazy shit? Or hell, pressuring them to tithe more or whatever?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:05 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm under the impression that quite a few priests did a whole worse than that

Hubbard was his own special brand of sexual predator

so has Wright's dog been murdered yet or anything? my wife was inquiring how he could get away with writing this book... I'm not finished with it yet, and I'm under the impression that the Church's ability to counteract critics is heavily diminished from previous decades but I didn't really have a good answer.

when you come at the king you best not miss (basically he did not miss)

xpost I noted above the thoroughness of the vetting, which Wright even writes about. In order for the CoS to come at him legally, they'd have to open themselves up to further scrutiny. As for threats, dude's last book was about Al Qaeda.

and look what happened to them

they moved around between countries like LRH, iirc

this gets a little less insane/entertaining after Hubbard ascends to OT X status or whatever. Miscavige's psychosis not as compelling.

it's more standard issue, but i do recommend watching this interview with him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSjVOXAb8U
(55 min, but worth it bc he is such a reptile)

http://s.mcstatic.com/thumb/5802946/16849657/4/flash_player/0/1/the_sopranos_god_created_dinosaurs.jpg
for some reason when reading this my mental image of Miscavige is actually the dude on the right

I'm just getting into the Miscavige stuff but he seems more coldly cynical than Hubbard.

yeah, he seems closer to garden variety power-hungry sadist than the weird mixture that Hubbard was

Hubbard had the dual edge thing where he kind of knew he was doing phony stuff but he believed in his own grandeur

The new regime just seems to believe in power

Shakey otm, in other words

watch the interview -- he is really really really creepy and it added to my appreciation of the sea org horror etc.
i sent that clip to my mom when she was recovering from hip surgery and she said it totally give her the creeps/she loved it
he's not the person you want in control of your fate

he's a reptile imo

I just read this morning about the dude who they forced to walk around a pole in the desert for 12 hours a day until his teeth fell out? What in the living fuck?!