AMC zombie series from Frank 'Majestic' Darabont - The Walking Dead

finished season 3 now. much improved from season 2 albeit fundamentally still an incredibly frustrating show. for the first half of the series the governor was so much preferable to have on screen than rick, whose conveniently on/off craziness was absolutely the worst (and most overacted) aspect of the season (my irl groan when i realised that lori's death still wouldn't prevent tedious rick/lori heart-to-hearts). then they turned him into a cartoon villain who survived less because of his own cunning and more because of blind luck/others' stupidity.

characters' stupidity remains a huge issue with virtually every episode containing multiple "but why didn't they do x" moments that would have saved them a lot of bother later. obviously epitomised in andrea, ugh, but basically everyone seems to absolutely love withholding vital information.

funny how they're all sharp shooters when it comes to zombies but in the final shoot-out scored zero (0) hits on actual humans.

what this season actually did well was dialogue when the cast was pared down to a couple of characters (and they ignored the woodbury vs prison plot that was based on nonsense). i loved the episode with rick/michonne/carl/morgan. like, see what happens when you stop yelling/glowering at each other and actually talk normally! (and as badass as michonne is, when they let her start speaking her character went up to another level.) merle had some great scenes with other characters too, and his "get drunk and roll a car blasting music into the clearing" zombie-luring tactic was a) very him b) one of the few actually clever plans any of these characters have ever had.

the finale was absolutely laughable. the governor slaughters his own people why??? it makes no sense and isn't even satisfying plot-wise.

although for every positive-ish character development (carol has a personality and the occasional decent line now!) there's a regression. how did glenn go from one of the few reasons to carry on watching to this emo b-grade rick? he's succumbed to the inarticulate machismo disease.

also i know we're meant to think carl's turning into this scary child psycho but even though he's (quite understandably) ice cold i trust his instincts way more than, for example, his dad's. he saved tyreese and sasha and brought them into the group; he responded to michonne helping him; the kid he shot wasn't laying down his own weapon; and he even gave rick a few doses of much-needed real talk about what a terrible fucking leader he was.

It's such a weird show, the way it's demonstrably terrible yet oddly compelling at the same time, and not in a "LOL, this show sucks" sort of way. It's never so terrible that you want to walk away, and there are just enough dangling threads of potential, glimmers of hope, that you want to stick around and see if it gets better. Which it inevitably does, before invariably taking a nosedive again. It's like watching the water cycle.

haha yes

goddamn, most fucked up episode yet. really powerful.

Yeah WTF! I thought that little girl had problems, but I never saw that coming. This one was the first to make me feel dread and that they are living in the end of the world.

Yeah, without a doubt, one of the darkest things I ever watched on television.

Yeah, kids never make a show better, but that was pretty hardcore, for TV, for anything. Like a more nightmarish Of Mice and Men moment. Not sure it earned it, but it still rattled.

Gotta say, I don't like a lot of this show, but this season has been really well directed and acted.

1) If they weren't two of the more compelling characters on the show, I would have predicted a murder/suicide ending.

2) Who the hell names an end of the world sanctuary "Terminus?"

Yeah, even the kids gave good performances this ep. They were even beginning to flesh out Myra as a character, of course, far too late. Carol and Tyreese were really exceptional, especially that final scene at the table. So happy Chad Coleman finally got a chance to bust out his chops, like Michonne late this season.

I'm gonna guess it actually is the railroad terminus trainyard, we're gonna see a gigantic, bloody/half-burned down sign and a bunch of bombed out cars

A note: I'm surprised to be saying this, but I've really gone completely 180 degrees on The Talking Dead. I used to think it was just a hollow cheer-leading segment to fill time between reruns, but getting production insight from the actors and even some of the guest analysis has really improved my enjoyment of the show for the last two seasons.

someone tell me what the insane brutal thing that happened was, on this show i stopped watchign

You are crazy, the last 4 ep's have been really good, just watch em.

Yeah, once they broke everyone up into small groups/pairs, sent them on the move/run, it's been one pretty solid standalone episode after the other, no doubt on the way to something massively disappointing at the end of the season.

Last episode was amazing. Best episode of the whole four seasons, I thought.

the breaking of the fellowship has been a v good thing for the narrative, indeed.

The irony being that less is happening even though more is happening. In a zombie apocalypse where children are eating their parents and people are putting their former loved ones down while they're not dealing with rampaging/shambling evildoers, every episode should be as heart-wrenching and hard to watch as the last one. But of course that would be the most depressing show ever.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/walking-dead-grove-202256

I agree with some of the points in this, actually, it just felt to me like they were pushing past dark to ludicrously dark.

Also so, so sick of zombies popping up whenever they can't end a damn scene.

Yeah, it goes back to the problem of the zombies being quiet until they're RIGHT BEHIND YOU! BOO!

I thought the write-up was *way* off point. Ludicrously dark is the lame governor lopping off a hero's head with a samurai sword. This dark turn, on the other hand, has been building up for a long while, and the pay-off on all fronts was perfectly in line with the set-up.

kind of an anticlimactic season ender. also want to know where Beth is.

the gang scene gave the episode bit of an early climax, but overall pretty good. i notice i keep getting a sentiment on this show that if they nail one really good scene I'll forgive anything else; super intense. (man, did not think they would go so far as to having Carl almost raped) i'll miss you, evil Jeff Kober

also a lot more satisfying than last year's season ender w/the gov. driving away. this season, especially the second half, was pretty damn good IMO. probably the best season of the show yet in retrospect, even w/the awkward adventures of One-Eye Bri

as soon as Beth was "disappeared" i knew we weren't gonna see her again until next season. maybe not even until the second half, depending how long this Terminus arc goes

actually looking forward to to see Rick and Co. go nuts on these hippie/hipster psycho cannibals (my guess?) next season. never trust a Tasha Yar, man

oh shit was that her?

yeah I loved the cage full of human ribcages and the sizzling meat that rick didn't allow anyone to eat

haha, yeah, i like how that was instinctive... *thinking* "where... could they have gotten all this meat..."
there's a great similar moment in The Walking Dead game by Telltale where the main character screams "DON'T EAT IT"

My wife and I were watching this last night and I think I knew Rick was going to bite the guy's throat out about two seconds before he did it, but him going to town on the other guy with the knife was just o_O.

When they were all outside the railway car and Rick saw all the empty boxes of powdered milk, all I could think of was that Simpsons "Treehouse of Horror" with Mrs. Krabappel writing on the board: HOMEWORK - EAT A STICK OF BUTTER.

http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/24851000/ngbbs526c1faa59d70.jpg

the way that scene ends with Carl staring with intense hatred/approval as Rick stabs the pedo endlessly was a really good shot

I can't believe they wasted the first half of this season on "resolving" the Gov. arc, when the stakes are so much higher for this second half of the season. But then, maybe that's why that other showrunner got run out. Whoever is in charge now is sure not afraid to go daaaaaaark.

I don't know if it went down that way - pretty sure Scott Gimple was showrunner since the beginning of this season (that is, his first job was to clean up the Governor mess + the disease arc). The way last year ended just smacked of interference... but I don't know for sure

I guess I was just presuming that at least a little work was done on the first half of this season before they swapped showrunners, but maybe not. Given how much stronger the second half of this season was than the first, which basically just extended the previous sort of not strong season was, it makes me wonder.

The question is: how long can the group last in a "Hostel" like house of horrors? Did we see the Washington guy among the group in the train car? Is he already gone and grilled? That would be a funny anti-climactic end to the dead-end get to DC subplot.

i'm up to speed now. gotta say, i think the show came into its own during season 4 - at its best that season was actually full-on no-caveats can't-look-away brilliant. i'm thinking the mid-season finale and the lizzie episode in particular (the former was pretty much a do-over of the botched season 3 finale, right? except done so well it didn't matter).

i really enjoyed the scattering of the cast. previously, interesting minor characters' subplots were kind of brushed under the carpet because the main plot and characters took precedence - it was really good to spend extended time with unlikely teams of people who weren't rick/carl etc, especially as they've actually learned how to do character development well. so i didn't mind that there was minimal plot development (which is an odd complaint anyway now, given that the main theme of the series is that there is no point, there is no endgame, there is no plot).

michonne and carl bonding has been one of the season's highlights for sure, who would have thought these two would be the ones bringing some much-needed levity to matters? surprisingly i also really liked carl yelling at unconscious rick. so teenage. it felt true to life and the character. helped that i agreed with him. and i no longer want rick to die!

daryl and beth was pretty absorbing, if you took the burning of the shack as allegorical catharsis rather than actual baffling stupidity. you'd think they'd have worked out their princess vs redneck issues by now but it's great that TWD went there with the class war angle. (politically, it's become so much better since the days of token-black-guy-killed-off-asap. minority characters carrying episodes without being caricatures and it's not even a thing.) i felt the last two episodes did lapse into the bad old days of stupidity and withholding information though - hey daryl, beth has not "just gone", maybe tell rick that she was kidnapped in a car???

maggie/bob/sasha and glenn/tara/new people had their moments but unfortunately glenn and maggie's relationship is now the worst thing about the show. so many unnecessary acts of stupidity and selfishness committed by them. i really, really wish that at some point they'd used glenn and maggie to bring the levity to the show - this constant intense "i must protect you with my life (even though i'm ill and you're perfectly capable)" crap is very wearing. they should have been an opportunity to remind the audience that joy and relaxation and contentment and shared humour with someone you love are possible even in a zombie apocalypse, and this would have meant there was more at stake when they were separated. and maybe i'd have had more patience with maggie dragging bob and sasha around after her, as if sasha hadn't also lost someone she loved. ditto glenn and tara - in just a few weeks tara's gone from relative security with her entire family to seeing her dad, sister, niece and girlfriend all die violently in front of her - in that context maybe HER trauma might be more in need of attention than glenn's? and the fucking train tunnel. you'd walk into a zombie-infested tunnel without your armour and with an injured companion just to save a day's journey? do you want to get to your wife or do you want to die trying? ughhhh.

against that backdrop i did like bob becoming a happy voice of reason rather than a dodgy alcoholic. and the three new characters are pretty 1D and straight outta the comics at this point but not in an annoying way. gotta love that there's someone out there who thinks hotpants and hoop earrings are suitable zombie apocalypse attire, love rosita already <3

obviously the carol/tyreese/lizzie/mika group was the BOMB this half-season though. if i had minor nitpicks, 1) i'd have liked them to keep escalating lizzie's craziness for a little while longer (just because it was tremendously effective to watch), 2) i'd rather she'd killed off judith than mika because that fucking baby is just dragging down the plot. still - that episode was peak walking dead. the carol/tyreese post-mortem was easily the most powerful non-violent scene in the show's history. carol's definitely the best character now. and she NEVER lapses into clichéd soliloquies, she speaks normally and level-headedly at all times and this never lessens the impact of her words or actions. also, an episode carried entirely by a middle-aged woman and an african-american man, neither of whom were remotely stereotyped? pow.

no idea where they'll go in season 5. thought they should probably have done the (i assume) cannibalism reveal in the finale, it was never explicit but if it's in the comics there'd obviously be speculation and there were enough clues to put two and two together. not much suspense about it now.

i have a feeling beth was kidnapped by someone else entirely, kidnapping doesn't seem to be terminus's style.

oh the flashbacks in the finale made me want to throw things though. NO 1 CURR about farming lyfe when drama is happening. STOPPIT.

glad they went with a guns blazing premiere, a lot of fun. really surprised that the end of Terminus came so soon!

That was pretty cathartic. Also worth watching Talking Dead for once, I missed a bunch of references and characters from earlier episodes!

Same here - can't believe they brought back that guy from waaay back last season with Rick's watch, to not even get a single line and get mercilessly slaughtered

As a newish parent, I really can't take more scenes of baby in peril, just too distressing. The abattoir carnage, fine, but the upset baby...

wow that must have been one of the best walking dead episodes ever, was convinced they'd take 3 episodes just to get out of the cattle truck. carol is the best.

as nice as it was to see them all reunited, that's some unwieldy group of FIFTEEN they're now trekking around as...

That was stunning opening episode, was never fooled that Tyrene wasn't going to anything other than waste that little fucker!

Tyreese

I don't think he did! Really hoping that dude doesn't double back and kill Tyreese's sister or something else awful.

Love this show, but it's so fucking cynical. I guess I'd like to think that humans would not be in such a big hurry to kill each other when faced with a zombie apocalypse.

xp
That is probably what will follow, alas he only beat him half to death.

Xpost

Remember that your nut job survivalist types who can't wait to go round killing the less prepared would probably be the ones who thrived in this sort of scenario. Sadly doesn't seem that cynical.

i don't think you even need a zombie apocalypse for humans to start killing each other, just the breakdown of law & order

props for how well this show deals w/race & gender (having been so terrible at it initially). tyreese as babysitter and carol as action heroine going into battle made total sense and was allowed to just happen without being a big deal.

it's weird to have started the new series and have no idea where it goes from here. we need either a new base, an artificial splitting up or a serious cull at this point. feel like being able to name all 15 in our merry post-terminus troupe should deserve a prize. tara probably the most obvious to be killed off but almost too obvious - hard to be shocked/upset about a character you'd forgotten about. glenn and maggie are still terrible but i live in fear of one of them dying and the other one moping for a whole season. abraham/eugene/rosita all still underdeveloped (has rosita even had any lines yet?) but their story hasn't really begun has it? i fear for bob/sasha - just developed enough that we care, but not too established that they're here for good.

i would like some michonne/sasha dialogue, i think

My understanding from interviews is that, as with this opener, they're going to bracket episodes at the beginning and end with stuff from what happened at Terminus before our intrepid heroes arrived. Gareth is definitely not dead - I've seen stills of him from later episodes, probably so Rick can deal with his "Remember when I said I'd kill you last, Sully?" promise.

A good episode from this show is such a red flag, considering its complete inability thus far to sustain a season-long narrative from start to finish. To that end, really this should have been last season's finale, the same mistake they made with the governor, but whatevs.

Other thoughts:

-Who cares what happened at Terminus before our heroes arrived?

-Why did they tie that dude's hands but not his feet? Also, I totally forget what turned Tyreese into the cowardly lion. The murder/death of his sister? That psycho kid from the end of last season?

-You want cynical? When they lined up the eight people at the trough, four of them strangers, four of them our heroes? What a cynical way to just get some horrific gore going without really putting any familiar faces at real risk.

-One of the very first episodes Rick realized that smearing yourself with zombie offal and other effluvia at least briefly disguises you. Certainly Michonne realized that walking around with mangled zombies protects you. Here Carol gets all gutted up to sneak around. Why don't more characters do this all the time? Is it just too gross?

-Carol did somehow clean up well, though, for the reunion.

-Took a while to steal the savvy fireworks idea from "Land of the Dead."

who did rick give the watch to? I remember that happened but don't remember who it was and didn't recognize anyone.

oh I just googled it. at the blood trough. ok.

Who cares what happened at Terminus before our heroes arrived?

Gimple said on Talking Dead that he wants to show what happens to people when they're put in situations that change them, that the Terminus people were good to begin with and became what they were due to the experience with the psychos who took over. "You're either the cattle or the butcher," or whatever the dude said. I think the implication is that Rick & Co. are going to undergo some heavy shit that might make them change their moral attitude and how they deal with people.

Not sure how much rape camp torture porn we really need to see to make a point that has already been pretty heavily made

I think this show errs on the side of going too far a lot, actually, so I'm expecting the flashbacks to be pretty dreadful.