The Cure boxset "Join the Dots", the tracklisting is here!!!!!

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so the rarities on the box are diff from what will be on 2 disc sets?

i had no idea these remasters were coming out. i assume that carnage visors will be on the remaster of faith, which will be nice as i want to replace my tapes already!

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 10 November 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link

Nothing with overlapping vocals could live up to the studio version! You might as well include "The Drowning Man" in that list as well!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 November 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link

No way Dan, the Paris 89 show w/ "Holy Hour" and "Drowning Man" is the best show they ever did! It's not about the overlapping vocals, it's about not being able to nail the original tempo, the studio versions have a swagger the sped-up live versions lose. Same thing happens to most of the pop stuff like "Let's Go to Bed" and "Close to Me".

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:12 (twenty years ago) link

The Wish tour versions of "Never Enough" and "Fascination Street" were godly. ESPECIALLY "Fascination Street".

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:27 (twenty years ago) link

"Desperate Journalist," yes please. And what about the live "Faith" from that Charlotte Sometimes 12"?

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:42 (twenty years ago) link

Speaking of Faith, if you can find a reasonably priced copy of Happily Ever After on vinyl, the sound quality is shockingly superior to the botched Elektra CDs.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link

ill look out for it.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:17 (twenty years ago) link

re. Never Enough live, very quickly they dropped for no apparent reason the main wah-wah melody, thus making the song pretty boring..

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 08:40 (twenty years ago) link

*Never Enough" and "Fascination Street" didn't work live. Never heard a tolerable version of either*

Crystal Palace Bowl, when they debuted Never Enough, it sounded awesome. I have the bootleg somewhere, come to think of it. And each remaster should def. have a live version of "A Forest" from that year.

Jim Eaton-Terry (Jim E-T), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 10:30 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, I also have that boot and it does sound very good. The 'Play Out' Brit Music Award version also rocks. So all the more surprising..

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 10:37 (twenty years ago) link

Remastered two-disc sets of The Cure's albums and surrounding "rarities" are coming out starting in 2004 with Pornography, Disintegration and Bloodflowers.

Argh my fuckin' head's going to explode! You mean having lovingly collected all the albums on CD over eight years (Seventeen Seconds was the very first CD I ever bought - and I've just realised I made sure it was, just so I could say so in situations such as this), specifically bought the big empty black Wish-era box to put them all in, and now THE FUCKERS ARE GOING TO MAKE ME BUY THEM ALL AGAIN?

Where will it all end, I ask you? Did that sign say "Hell"? And what are we doing in this handcart? etc.

"Never Enough" is fantastic, of course - my copy's especially cool, since Simon Gallup gave it to me (my mate Higgy's mum used to walk her dog with Simon's wife, FACT!). "Harold & Joe"...mmm...

Anyone going to the London show in December?

Oh, and I've just realised why Hot hot Heat are so named...d'oh.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:59 (twenty years ago) link

I can beat that - my mates, in the early '90s, had a huge party at a house on Dartmoor. They were playing all Cure songs, as it was that era. The neighbour came and asked them to turn it down. He was Lol Tolhurst...

Jim Eaton-Terry (Jim E-T), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 14:54 (twenty years ago) link

Jim, that's the greatest story ever told.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link

hey cure-heads, if I was going to download any one particular live rendition of "a forest", what should I get?

etc, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 14:59 (twenty years ago) link

Concert, the Wembley '86 version (or In Orange). Avoid the Prayer Tour versions; Robert had a habit of paying homage to "Love Will Tear Us Apart" during the full breakdown, it's cringeworthy.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 15:25 (twenty years ago) link

Oof. There is no one answer, there have been several stellar ones with notable differences. An early live one called "Into the Trees," the 'fuck Robert Palmer' version, a weird, slow strung out version from 1992 London that's almost twenty minutes long and has Robert dropping in various songtitles and references to the Wish album and another fifteen-minute-plus take from Germany a couple of years later are all great, but there are others.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 15:26 (twenty years ago) link

I haven't been able to listen to "A Forest" live since they started doing the half-time drum breakdown.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 15:31 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...
is this available for presale anywhere yet? Im getting it for my sister as a late xmas gift..

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 4 December 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link

urgh.. the awful bloodflowers face lurks beneath the track listing..

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Thursday, 4 December 2003 08:26 (twenty years ago) link

I cannot wait to see next month's UNCUT review of this.

the curefox, Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

what's wrong with his feet? are those legwarmers?

geeta (geeta), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
grrr... Amazon messed up my order and I'm gonna have to wait at least an extra week.. Has anyone picked it up yet? Impressions?

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 13:26 (twenty years ago) link

I picked it up, and then a bit later, put it down. Looks nice.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

I'd say that the Glastonbury 86 version of A Forest (taken from a BBC Radio broadcast) is pretty damn fine, as is the whole broadcast, great versions of Push and Sinking too!

I am stoked at the prospect of 2 CD remastered versions coming out this year, there is a lot of unreleased stuff out there that is worth hearing. Also they should get some kind of Dick's Picks (Ned's Picks?) thing happening, especially some of those foreign radio broadcasts from 80-82 Werchter/Lille/Hertford etc: They had an a great sound back then.

check www.skippyscage.com/mzui if anyone wants to trade some early Cure.

mzui, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 14:47 (twenty years ago) link

Also
they should get some kind of Dick's Picks (Ned's Picks?) thing happening, especially some of those foreign radio broadcasts from 80-82
Werchter/Lille/Hertford etc: They had an a great sound back then.

I WOULD HAPPILY TRAWL THROUGH THE ARCHIVES OF THAT. Um, please.

My box set is on order at my Fave Local Record Store, and I will be picking it up this Friday.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:30 (twenty years ago) link

This is great news even though I have a good chuck of the “classic” catalog on (at least) VG quality vinyl – excepting “Carnage Visors”, which I can’t wait to hear full spectrum.

I read this whole post but maybe i missed this: anybody know if there’ll be duplication between the box and the future supplemental discs.

christoff (christoff), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:37 (twenty years ago) link

nope. bonus discs unereleased disc should contain only unreleased material (I guess with a fair share of live material)

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:40 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, listening back to Carnage Visors for the first time in years, I thought it had a kind-of Tortiose-y/Brokeback P**t R**k feel.

mzui, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:48 (twenty years ago) link

Spit it out there, Mzui. You can say it, it's just hard to sometimes.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 16:01 (twenty years ago) link

Got mine through the post yesterday. Looks lush, sounds lusher.

Mmmm.

Muppet Boy, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 16:10 (twenty years ago) link

well, at least no xylophone on Carnage Visors..

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 16:25 (twenty years ago) link

Revive!!!
This is the thread where you come out of your self-imposed hibernation and marvel at hearing New Day in its remastered glory!!

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Thursday, 5 February 2004 15:22 (twenty years ago) link

the flexi pop 'lament' is worth the filler alone

kephm, Thursday, 5 February 2004 15:48 (twenty years ago) link

Discs one and two contain more quality songs than most bands record in a lifetime, so if you don't already have this stuff (and what fan doesn't), it's still worth it, but all this set does is diminish the remarkable quality of their B-sides through Wish. The last two discs are absolute fucking gash after "This Twilight Garden" and "Play" (which are both better than 80% of Wish; "Play" is hugely improved, there's some trebly moaning in the background I'd never noticed before). The only decent non-album track they've done since is "Spilt Milk".

As usual, the "digital remastering" is just normalization, which is fine but it totally fucks up the low-end on "10.15 Saturday Night". "Splintered in Her Head" and "Lament" are the most improved, which is to be expected as they're the most digital early tracks ("Harold and Joe" likewise benefits from some bass kick and clarity on the high-end keys). I did find I actually liked "Stop Dead" and "A Man Inside My Mouth" listening to them now, I had sworn off them in high school and chastized Ned for liking the latter. "Speak My Language" and "Mr. Pink Eyes" still make me wince, though.

"A Japanese Dream" sounds as shitty and thin as it did from day one and I'm convinced they mastered all of the KMKMKM B-sides from a virgin vinyl copy, there's shitloads of clipping in the left track on most of them and they sound way too high in the 8KHz range. I have CD-R boots with the "New Mix" of "Icing Sugar" that sound better than the one on here. The 12" remix of "A Japanese Dream" is so many light years better it's ridiculous. Why even acknowledge this bullshit single-length take, it has no space, no bass, no pulse, nothing compared to the extended mix. The real treausres on this set are Clearmountain's dubious single-prep mix of "How Beautiful You Are" and "To The Sky" (apparently this settles that the superior "Resurrection" mix from the early 90s Unplugged boot Acoustic Daze is a pure bootleg mix?).

Disintegration remaster is going to sound amazing: "Babble", "Fear of Ghosts" and particularly "Out of Mind" are so much fuller - the track depth and clarity in comparison to the original mixes is unreal, it's like new songs. "2 Late" still sounds as dry and distant from the album as it did on the "Lovesong" single. Still most everyone's favorite b-side, a lot of folks' favorite Cure song. Too Smiths/REM for me.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 5 February 2004 16:19 (twenty years ago) link

Also, disagree re: flexipop "Lament" - the washed-out, border-mono mix that's been circulating on boots for all time is better than this revamp, which tries to force too much separation and ends up losing the gooey Glove mud.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 5 February 2004 16:22 (twenty years ago) link

For me, the major revelation is listening to Splintered In Her Head, especially on headphones the construction of drum/precussion delays/pitch shifting and varispeeded voices are scary as hell.

Chris, I have a 2nd gen monitor mix of All Cats Are Grey sneaked onto quarter inch during a break in recording by a tape-op, it's not a million miles different from the original but enough as to be of interest (tom placement, sfx at start and end louder) I could dig it out if yr interested.

mzui, Thursday, 5 February 2004 16:52 (twenty years ago) link

STILL DON'T HAVE IT ARGH

(They stopped by yesterday, them UPS people, but when I was out and they need a signature dammit. So TODAY since I signed the slip. Grr.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, I'm WETTING myself to see what they dig up for that extra cd's worth of Goodies for 3IB/17 Seconds/Faith/Head On The Door/Pornography especially!
I have crappy Head On The Door demos, be nice to have them in pristeen stereo.

Those Elvis Costello re-issues should be a yardstick for bonus beats, Get Happy! Just amazing!

mzui, Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:19 (twenty years ago) link

I have a sneaking suspicion the second discs won't be "packed," but who cares - remastering the first wave of Elektra CDs is priority #1. The CD of Seventeen Seconds is a blasphemy.

What could we see beyond:

TIB: All the extraneous material from the 1st wave that wound up on BDC, maybe even "See the Children"? haha. I wouldn't be surprised if Smith relegates "Object" to disc 2...
17 Seconds: peel sessions, live tracks - the demos wouldn't be that good, I would think they'd go for live stuff, the 17 tour was their first big one, some of their best shows. Prospect Hill!
Faith: Carnage Visors, demos, unreleased tracks (back in the late 80s, a collector told me there were four or five songs from these sessions no one has ever heard - can you verify?), peel sessions
Pornography: peel/jensen sessions ("Ariel"), demos, AIHTDIKH.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago) link

Sign of hyperCuregeek happiness = knowing what the last acronym is.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:39 (twenty years ago) link

I'd been told that there are comprehensive demo versions of the first few albums (excepting 3IB), but I know nothing about unreleased material, now that would be something. Isn't there a batch of Pornography demos with Smith writing drum parts and playing them?

As for live stuff, well I said it before but there should be proper releases of IMO:

Lille 81
Arnheim 80
Herford 80
Werchter 81
Zomerpop/Jaapeden Halle. Shortish, Dutch Radio Broadcasts 81
Paris 82
Japan or Washington 84

And thats just for starters, never mind all those BBC live concerts!

Wasn't Prospect Hill an audience jobbie?

mzui, Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:47 (twenty years ago) link

All I Have To Do Is Kill Her? Yay...
Isn't that just an early version of Forever?
And while you UberGeeks are here, explain the difference (if there is one) between All Mine and Forever, and why is it called Forever (version) on the Curiosities cassette.

mzui, Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:50 (twenty years ago) link

The CD of Seventeen Seconds is not only the first CD I ever bought, but also probably my all-time favourite album. Chris, does this mean it's actually *better* than the version i've been hearing? Fucking hell.

However, i'm saddened to admit that I have no idea what that acronym stands for - care to share?

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:51 (twenty years ago) link

oops, xpost.

anyone got any live KMKMKM-era boots? I'd love a whole gig...

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

All mine is an improvisation, as is Forever. I guess they received different titles to distinguish them. Am I wrong in thinking that the title Forever comes how it was baptized on Curiosity?
I'd be a bit disappointed if most of the 2nd discs are made up of live material.

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:00 (twenty years ago) link

Mzui identified it -- "All I Have to Do Is Kill Her," which to my knowledge was only ever performed once as a strung-out piece of weirdness at a Paris show in 1982.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:01 (twenty years ago) link

yep, Bataclan 82
itself a variation of All Mine, I would say

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:04 (twenty years ago) link

CD mastering was, technologically speaking, in its infancy when Elektra batch-issued the Cure's early albums, I think it was in 1987, around the time of KMKMKM? Not sure. At any rate, the mastering job is god-awful, because Mike Hedges was a fanatic about low-end at that time. The kick drum on 17 Seconds and Faith distorts on the CD. On vinyl - even on Happily Ever After, the wave goes right through you. It makes a huge difference in space and clarity, and I'm no audiophile purist. It's really glaring. Head on the Door was crushed as well, though the mid-heavy mix is a common cocaine side-effect ;)

KMKMKM boots are terrible, I regret to inform you. Most of the ones I've heard are soundboards from American dates, and Boris was playing a heavily electronic kit. Sounds like a Yamaha RX-7 through a Boss pedal, really dead and flat. The most widely available KMKMKM boot is Santa Barbara CA.

"All Mine" is just Smith wanking on guitar, as he was wont to do before anthems ("Disintegration" during the prayer tour, he always does it before "Three Imaginary Boys"). "Forever" was a more structured, mounting improvisation based around a frankly boring riff that built to crescendo. It dates from The Top tour as far as I know, it was another way to get Porl's sax in there. They did it with Shellyan Orphan in 1989 at their supposed "Last American show ever - we mean it!", and it was pretty awful. Cure: not a jam band.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:14 (twenty years ago) link

Prospect Hill was an audience job, but there's something to be said for that, they were such a compact unit then, and in the small club, it just sounds perfect, really raw and tense. It's the same songs but those shows are the polar opposite of 17 Seconds in terms of energy and attack.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:16 (twenty years ago) link

Cool, thanks.

The problems I'm having are with the guitar lines in the intro souding really shrill and distorted.

AnotherDeadHero, Tuesday, 27 July 2010 09:18 (thirteen years ago) link

five years pass...

Clearmountain mix of How Beautiful You Are; amazing! wasn't there some story that Clearmountain was hired to remix the whole KMKMKM album by the Cure's manager? i know he did all the singles too.

piscesx, Wednesday, 6 January 2016 11:47 (eight years ago) link


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