also just going to go ahead and have a Captain America: The Winter Soldier thread

and yeah Batroc the Leaper! I only know his name from the Marvel board game issued in the seventies (through which I also learned MODOK).

Do you mean in-universe or in the audience? Because neither of those is even remotely true.

I mean not from the comics, from the first movie. Obv. comic nerds know almost every soapy beat of these things. I just meant as a major character from the first CA movie.

I'm not bad at watching movies, btw. I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

I should say I really like all these movies, at least a little. But I thought this one pretty perfunctory. I think all the positive reviews are related to the Real World themes, but as a superhero movie it was pretty eh.

The first section of the first film was about Steve being 4F and his friend Bucky shipping out. The entire reason Captain America went into combat and ducked out of the USO show was because his friend was behind enemy lines captured. Did you watch the first movie?

Also, whatever review or comment I read saying the title was a misnomer because the Winter Soldier character is barely present has no idea wtf a "winter soldier" is. Hint: it's not just Bucky

in other words Bucky done gone

think I'm gonna see this today. didn't care for the first one but the trailer looked positively dope oh fuck the dog I was watching just moved out of view brb

I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

Actually, I think there's an advantage to having very little familiarity with Marvel storylines. I have no idea who any of the non-famous characters are (Quicksilver? Scarlet Witch? Batroc? Sharon?) so when they're introduced I can just take them as they're presented to me. Which maybe makes it easier to not quibble with how they're presented? I suppose that isn't true for all Marvel-ignorant viewers.

I'm not bad at watching movies, btw. I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

i'm unfamiliar with the decades-old stories and i didn't have a problem with this at all, i remember bucky because i remember the first movie

anyway the marvin gaye montage at the end was the best

and there was "ah! abed cameo!" but more importantly DC PIERSON CAMEO

Well, maybe it did not help that I saw the first movie three years and, what, three Marvel movies ago, and have not seen a minute of it since. I liked it, too, iirc. So no, I didn't remember Bucky playing a big role. Obviously I know the mythology from the comics - I didn't have to ask who Thanos was after the Avengers, either - but I felt the drama between Cap and Winter Soldier in this was as perfunctory as the rest of it.

Am I correct that Quicksilver at least will be appearing in next X-Men movie, as a mutant, played by a different actor?

Every single of the dozens of bad guys that sneak into SHIELD looks like a swarthy villain from Die Hard, and no one notices?

They worked there! There was nothing unusual about them being there!

Yeah, I'm sorry, no, every single one of the bad SHIELD agents just happened to be sweaty and dark and full-stubbled. I thought it was comical, actually. Though it was an easy way to tell the two sides apart!

I think first Captain America movie is still on netflix if you need more Bucky

Am I correct that Quicksilver at least will be appearing in next X-Men movie, as a mutant, played by a different actor?

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, April 5, 2014

yes. it is what it is.

You know, at the rate they're adding characters, I'm honestly surprised the second Avengers movie is itself not a two-parter. More villains, more heroes, each with tricky backstories - Baron Von whomever, Ultron, the Vision, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, plus everyone from the first movie, all pushing things toward a Thanos movie ... but no Hank Pym in this, though Hank Pym later, and one assumes/hopes Doctor Strange shows up, with room for at third Thor and Captain America, and Guardians of the Galaxy, and yet no Fantastic Four or X-Men in this universe. It's getting so convoluted.

and apparently Steve Strange will bring Midge Urge with him

Midge Ure? Isn't that Thor's hammer?

JIC i'm usually with you on the movie stuff but in this case i feel a switch to decaf may be beneficial

i sort of want to see this but i've heard the action sequences are horribly done which makes me REALLY not want to see this. also, i don't like scarjo.

untrue re the action sequences ime but hey if that's what you heard

I counted about 5 1/2 action set-pieces, and I thought the last one (the big climactic one) was the only one that could have used a lot of tightening up.

No one in this movie has any fancy powers so the action is pretty grounded and coherent. Lots of hand to hand

iirc wesley morris (who is usually otm) complained in his review about the blocking and lack of establishing shots and i expected going in to be annoyed but imo their approach captured in a visceral way the notion of physical struggle between superhumanly strong, fast, and skilled combatants.

I really enjoyed the first one. I can't wait to watch it tomorrow.

The only fight that worked for me was CA vs. Batroc; the rest were cut to bits, but that's just 'cause they gotta work with what they've got and Chris Evans is never gonna be Tony Jaa. I was also left cold by the climax; the hunting-Nick Fury sequence was way more interesting than the big three-helicarriers bit. Basically, the more grounded the movie was, the better I liked it. Plotwise, it was interesting while still being geared toward 10-year-old boys ill-equipped to handle the philosophical rigors of, say, Person of Interest. A couple of decent bits of normal human behavior; I liked CA's little notebook where he writes down all the 20th Century pop culture he needs to catch up on, and the soldier-bro interaction between him and Falcon in general was fun.

this was awesome!!! much darker than the first, but not in a 'brooding bleak' way. Nice body count, too.

You know, I think the only reason I was disappointed was that I heard a couple of people say this was the best of this batch since Avengers, but I had more fun at Thor 2 and Iron Man 3. This wasn't bad, I admit I was unduly harsh. I just felt it was pretty by the books. I really was expecting at least some element of surprise in it, something novel and inventive, but it was just generally competent. Like I said, barely remember the first, but I remember liking it more.

And yeah, a lot of people getting shot in this.

this was prob my fav of the Marvel flicks

fuck thor 2 is terrible! don't tell me it's better than this!

the reactions to this film seem to be all over the place

Thor 2 is in no way better than this movie, not even close.

This was the most paint-by-numbers Marvel movie yet, Iron Man 2 aside. At least the first Thor was a goofy misfire.

Thor 2 isn't better, but it's more fun and has more personality.

that is insane. Thor 2 was fucking boring!!!!

yeah Thor 2 was about as much fun as something not even remotely fun

If anyone, three or four more Marvel movies down the line, remembers a single solitary detail from this movie with any affection, I'll ... no, that will not even remotely happen. This is placeholder serialized franchise filmmaking at its most useless.

let's just c/p the above to the RONG thread and move along....

whereas I've already forgotten all but 5 mins of Thor 2

That can be true and still be evidence in its favor of this installment.

of over

Oh hey, guess where Armond White landed?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375062/captain-america-red-white-and-false-armond-white

Again, it's a wonder how much more compelling Armond has gotten very recently with the seeming benefit of real editorial guidance.

And how sad it is.

hokkoda • 7 hours ago

So, just got back from the flick...movie night with my sweetie...and it is outstanding.

What the reviewer doesn't understand is that there are a lot of people, people like me, who left the military, who left the government, because we can see what it is becoming.

When the heroes lay low with Sam, who is a vet, and Cap asks for help, he says something to the effect of, "Captain America needs my help? I'm in." Makes more sense in the context of the film, but I felt like Sam. Our country, from Obamacare to the IRS to the Fed to PRISM to Paramilitary local cops is turning into a police state.

Interestingly, Cap wears a "Dark Knight"-esque uniform for the first part of the film, is basically a civilian for the middle part, and goes old school for the finale.

This is not even remotely a left-wing movie. Two groups of people won't like it. Big Government "Brave New World" Obama-ites, and Big Military "Trade Freedom for Security" types.

Evans still has a shaved chest, y?

The writing may have improved but the shtick hasn't changed.

Evans’s cartoon image lacks the uncanny moral resonance that distinguished the compassionate Superman in Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel – the best in the recent surfeit of comic-book movies, where feeling and action were combined to a graphic/spiritual purpose.

shtick OR what he actually believes

I know "spritual" brings out the Gong Show judge in ilx

Interesting that so many people like this for the politics or message, but no one seems to be talking at all about all the superhero stuff. And everyone seems to think the titular baddie is all but irrelevant. And that's a success?

I've already forgotten a lot of Thor 2, but I do remember having fun with it. Same with the first Cap'n America, which I've forgotten even more of. Apparently contrary to my instincts, I am the only one who forgot all about Bucky from the first one, but I do find it funny that this movie, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 all found it important to again and again remind of "the events of New York" - you know, the giant billion dollar blockbuster that everyone saw and liked - but just sort of drops in the Bucky drama as if Cap'n 1 came out last week and I've been on the edge of my seat wondering how Cap'n is faring.

Also, and this is unrelated to this movie being good and bad, certainly three giant extra-terrestrial styled death star helicarriers crashing in missiles and flames over DC would be just as troubling to your average innocent American as aliens over NYC. This movie could have used a couple of reaction shots of people around the world in native garb tuning in around the world. You know, nomads in robes in a tent watching a pirate feed, Japanese school kids watching TV in class, tourists in Hollywood ignoring the costumed sidewalk heroes in favor of the drama unfolding on TV...

xp I don't give a flip about "spiritual," I boggle at any film critic or writer of repute finding "Man of Steel" anything but turgid and dumb.

Interesting that so many people like this for the politics or message, but no one seems to be talking at all about all the superhero stuff. And everyone seems to think the titular baddie is all but irrelevant. And that's a success?

Well, I mentioned upthread that 'they really made Cap insanely-but-convincingly athletic and capable' and I do think this movie does a great job of showing how superheroes MOVE more than any other movie of its kind. In the opening sequence especially, Cap and Black Widow's movements are really fluid - they seem utterly in command of the situation and their abilities, and they have a weight to them which shows up the horrible ragdoll Spider-Man swinging sequences from his movies, for example.

The titular baddie is the emotional core of the movie. How is that irrelevant?

I've already forgotten a lot of Thor 2, but I do remember having fun with it. Same with the first Cap'n America, which I've forgotten even more of. Apparently contrary to my instincts, I am the only one who forgot all about Bucky from the first one, but I do find it funny that this movie, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 all found it important to again and again remind of "the events of New York" - you know, the giant billion dollar blockbuster that everyone saw and liked - but just sort of drops in the Bucky drama as if Cap'n 1 came out last week and I've been on the edge of my seat wondering how Cap'n is faring.

Well, the events of New York only took place a couple of years ago, tops, in the movie universe, and they directly involved Iron Man and Thor, which is why they were mentioned in those characters' movies. Why would Thor or Iron Man make reference to Captain America's WWII partner, who as far as anyone knew died 70 years ago in events only Captain America was actually involved in? To Cap's mind, though, the death of his best friend was only a few years ago - of course it's still going to be a big deal to him and the sequel to his first solo movie is the only logical place to go in-depth about it. Would Avengers have benefited frokm stopping for five minutes so Cap could discuss his anguish with Bruce Banner?

And they don't 'just drop it in' - there's a flashback to Bucky's death, his importance to the war effort is explained in a museum exhibit at the Smithsonian and there's another flashback where we see that Cap and Bucky were lifelong friends even before they joined the army. I genuinely don't understand your problem with this part of the movie. What else could they have done which would have satisfied you?

Also, and this is unrelated to this movie being good and bad, certainly three giant extra-terrestrial styled death star helicarriers crashing in missiles and flames over DC would be just as troubling to your average innocent American as aliens over NYC. This movie could have used a couple of reaction shots of people around the world in native garb tuning in around the world. You know, nomads in robes in a tent watching a pirate feed, Japanese school kids watching TV in class, tourists in Hollywood ignoring the costumed sidewalk heroes in favor of the drama unfolding on TV...

Yes, this movie would really have benefited from interrupting the climactic action scene, which was already split between three characters' parallel activities, with cutaways to characters we've never seen before looking shocked or whatever.

I actually thought the way they handled the destruction in the final scene was really clever. Man of Steel was rightly excoriated for a final battle which destroyed Metropolis and must have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Here, the damage is done away from the city centre, over a river, and although many people must have died when the helicarriers went down they were either a) boo hiss Hydra baddies or b) plucky SHIELD agents who knew what they were signing up for. And in terms of impact on public opinion, I think the destruction of three helicarriers, the design of which the public are already familiar with because similar models are standard-issue SHIELD vehicles, would pale somewhat in comparison to the shock of an actual honest-to-goodness invasion of space bastards, complete with giant armoured worms, via a fucking wormhole to distant space in the skies over NYC.

I'd like to see some references in Avengers 2 to disaster fatigue in middle America and/or actual cases of PTSD in people living in NYC, DC and London.

Save it for the Damage Control movie imo.