"Are you hungry? Did you eat before the POLL?"_ILM Artist Poll #51_SLEATER-KINNEY (VOTING ENDS Tuesday April 22nd at Midnight CST)

see now "Entertain" is the worst song they wrote

I still get annoyed when I remember the Stylus review saying something about how the sound/mastering was too macho to effectively battle patriarchy or some shit. xp

Hah, that and "Modern Girl" are on my shortlist. xp

(Thanks, Tarfumes!)

From that Stylus Review, with the line in question in bold:

That the band cuts out some of the chaff of “Entertain” when they join the rank and file on our TV dial is only the latest example of S-K revealing just how unaware they are. You can’t upend the patriarchy while emulating the Who. Begging people to not listen to your music without the artwork while sending liner-free promos out four months in advance is a joke and it’s absurd to decry entertainers while having people pay to watch your increasingly jam-filled performances. The tension between desire and reality has always been the band’s source of power, but residual affection aside, their woes are becoming pathological and the last thing we need are more preening rock gods demanding our sympathy, male or female.

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/reviews/sleater-kinney/the-woods.htm

da croupier, get in here!

Such a weird, misguided paragraph.

You can’t upend the patriarchy while emulating the Who.

I just can't fucking even...

it’s absurd to decry entertainers while having people pay to watch your increasingly jam-filled performances.

That doesn't even make any sense.

(not that the Who line made any goddamn sense)

Which reminds me, the other highlight of the '03 show I saw was the unexpected (to me, but I'd only seen them once before, in 2000), overwhelming, and distinctly Live at Leeds-esque excursion near the end.

I think protest songs're allowed to be specific tbh

― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:41 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This; and not only is it still relevant/does it still apply, but like all great protest songs, the specifics speak to the larger issues.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:07 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Where is the questioning where is the protest song? /
Since when is skepticism un-American? /
Dissent’s not treason but they talk like it’s the same /
Those who disagree are afraid to show their face

this is precisely my problem -- its about this oddly specific moment when it felt like saying anything at all was forbidden, and flags were hanging out of every window and nobody could question.

and all it really said was "hey i'm questioning but look hi everyone i'm just expressing skepticism and that's not un-American and i'm not a traitor" which is like the worst rallying cry ever.

its a timid track, which is masked by the strength of the music. but the further away from the moment we are, the more obvious how little ambition it expressed.

here's what i wrote at the time (yikes!)

The no-new-wavisms reach their turbulent peak on “Combat Rock” which minces around the spirit of a protest song in shrill pantomime invocations well executed enough to make me feel complicit in things which I had nothing to do with. Corin sings something about oil and machines but mainly we get the sense she’s put out because she’s told she can’t dissent. That the new world order provides opportunities for rebellion for the hell of it on a new and broader plane, and she’s damn pissed off she’s gonna have to be the one to write a song about it. Because in the final analysis the political is political and the truth of the matter is the personal should stay the heck out of it. But don’t tell that to Corin, who’ll just sing louder.

really their first NPR-ready work :-(

(also this reminded me of a track that not only didn't age well, but didn't start well -- Le Tigre's "new kicks". its pretty stunning how poorly the 90s' politics of the personal failed to translate, aesthetically, when dealing with big world events)

(their covers of fortunate son were a much better approach to this stuff, imho)

(xxposts, i also made a who comparison, which makes total sense, but considered it an obvious positive)

(their covers of fortunate son were a much better approach to this stuff, imho)

Grisso, are we allowed to vote for "Fortunate Son," or actual releases only?

I am on record as being pro-The Woods. That first time hearing "The Fox" kick in, goddamn.

― Simon H., Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:55 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh yes. That was probably the last time I did the whole "go and hang out at the record store to buy the album at midnight" thing (not that I haven't wanted to since, but the custom just went away), and I still vividly remember getting home and popping in the cd for the first time. I'd managed to avoid hearing any of the music in advance, but I'd read some stuff. Still, nothing could prepare me for...that.

Related: Eddie Vedder being embarrassing interviewing Sleater-Kinney for Magnet upon the release of The Woods

XP If you want to vote for the covers, cool. "Fortunate Son" was eligible any way, as a recording of it was featured on the charity comp Wed-Rock: A Benefit for Freedom To Marry.

Oh! Thanks.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61qKa10EPTL._SY300_.jpg

Looks like I have some further investigating to do! :D

Speaking of their covers, this rules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyZ0tBqOqTA

this is precisely my problem -- its about this oddly specific moment when it felt like saying anything at all was forbidden, and flags were hanging out of every window and nobody could question.

This wasn't the first time that had happened, not by a long shot, and likely won't be the last.

and all it really said was "hey i'm questioning but look hi everyone i'm just expressing skepticism and that's not un-American and i'm not a traitor" which is like the worst rallying cry ever.

That one line -- "Since when is skepticism un-American?" -- is easily the weakest, granted.

its a timid track, which is masked by the strength of the music. but the further away from the moment we are, the more obvious how little ambition it expressed.

here's what i wrote at the time (yikes!)

I think you want the song to be something it's not trying to be. It's not (entirely) a Clashy stirring rallying cry; it's trying to work through some shit on its way there.

The delivery on the "skepticism" line doesn't do it any favors, either.

It's the lyrical equivalent of this fucking thing:
http://i1.cpcache.com/product/13993015/american_flag_peace_sign_tree_ornament.jpg?height=240&width=240

Relevant (from the interview I posted upthread):

Vedder: OK, I wanted to share something with you. It's 2003, a year before the elections. This is when it's not so popular to be wearing a peace sign on your sleeve or speaking out against the war in Iraq. And you saw the Dixie Chicks and then us thrown on the fire as not being patriotic. All of a sudden, Pearl Jam was part of the "activists of evil." As Pearl Jam and Sleater-Kinney were going through Oklahoma, or wherever we were, at the end of the show we'd play "Rockin' In The Free World." I remember the music still going and I was holding hands with Corin, and with our other hands we were flaring out the peace sign. There were a lot of people in the crowd who seemed offended by it, and I remember - and Corin, I never told yo this at the time, because I wanted to keep doing it - being afraid that something bad was going to happen. That you would be assassinated, or you'd be holding the hand of someone being assassinated. I felt really incredibly vulnerable up there. Do you remember how you were feeling at the time?

Tucker: I remember being so blown away at our first show with you guys in Denver. And it was the first week of the war. We got up in Denver and blabbed about the war and were booed by about 10,000 people. It was really shocking. I felt like I was suddenly six years old and taking a really hard, cold slap to the face. But it made me really angry, and anger for me can override anything. The fear is secondary to that feeling of "shut up." That's what I felt like at that moment: someone saying "shut up" to me. And I was like, "OK, now you're really asking for it." I would try to think about creative ways to say something during those shows when things were so tense. And there's also the feeling of, "OK, we're going to get fired. Someone's going to fire us." [Laughter] Not you.

Vedder: Someone higher up. [Laughter]

Tucker: But what was going on in the world was so awful that I can't imagine performing in front of all those people and not saying something. And I couldn't imagine you not doing it, either. And you did it every night to people who were so angry. It just has to come up, because you are relating to these people honestly.

Vedder: I was particularly energized by the solidarity. It wouldn't have been the same without all you guys up there, and to be able to hold your hand and stand together, it was like, "smile it. I'll take the bullet. This is important." So Sleater-Kinney will be on tour before Pearl Jam is, and you'll be facing a country that failed to do its civic duty to educate itself and vote properly in this last election. Do you hold it against a certain state, like Ohio, before you even get there?

Tucker: I think the people who come to see us are the ones who are like, "Man, this country is fucked." There's not gonna be a lot of Republicans coming to see Sleater-Kinney. Maybe a few, and they might write on the Internet, "We're so annoyed that you're so vocal about these things. But we still like your music."

Brownstein: At a Sleater-Kinney show, there's a slightly more homogenous political atmosphere. Which, in some ways, is frustrating. At a Pearl Jam show, there is that danger of playing and talking in front of people who have different views than you. That really drove the writing on this record. It's scary to get bigger, but there's something exciting about realizing that maybe your music is transcending something and you're not just preaching to the converted. If you say something pro- or anti- a certain politican, you might be met with resistance. Resistance isn't necessarily a bad thing for art. In some ways, it fuels it.

Tucker: That's what's so great about Pearl Jam: You actually have the possibility of asking someone to think in a different way than they might. That's what rock 'n' roll used to be. People would do things that were crazy and would upset people.

to be fair lots of us male critics wrote dumb or garbled shit about SK, including me.

this is precisely my problem -- its about this oddly specific moment when it felt like saying anything at all was forbidden, and flags were hanging out of every window and nobody could question.

well yeah but as responses go, compare e.g. phil ochs "i'm going to say it now."

"And I know that you were younger once 'cause you sure are older now / And when I've got something to say, sir, I'm gonna say it now."

that's how it's done.

ochsplaining

You can’t upend the patriarchy while emulating Greenwich Village folkies.

I remember being so blown away at our first show with you guys in Denver. And it was the first week of the war. We got up in Denver and blabbed about the war and were booed by about 10,000 people.

in other words, Pearl Jam fans can be douchenozzles

CB has just been cast in the new Todd Haynes movie. Good for her! (I've long since come to terms with the fact that we're never getting S-K back.)

this really is an endlessly listenable band.

Checking Carrie out on IMDB. Her mini-bio:

Carrie Brownstein was born on September 27, 1974 in Seattle, Washington, USA. She is a writer and actress, known for Portlandia (2011), Some Days Are Better Than Others (2010) and The Horse Whisperer (1998).

A big Wahhhh? followed by the discovery "Little Babies" was used in the latter film.

Oh! and her "Trademark":

Sexy dance moves while playing guitar.

When I first saw Portlandia I thought it ws p cool CB ws in a comedy, but it's NOTHING comp to S-K

Good morning! Have one ballot in. Trying to finalize my mine. Here is today's suggested listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTbCa8V2-w8

I think my review for stylus was definitely overreaching, presumptuous and clumsy (whaddyagonnado I was young dumb and edited only in theory) but considering the group split after and carrie went off to do do an American Express ad I'll stand by the Metallica comparison and the general sense that these guys became real self-contradictory cornballs once they entered the "guaranteed four stars" stage.

Had no place saying shit about the patriarchy etc but still not jazzed about these guys going from 60s Who to 70s Who

You say that like there's something wrong with 70s Who.

Otoh they were never either, bad analogy

Yeah it ain't perfect but I can't imagine it hurts the brain too much to conceive commonalities

all the best bands are massively self-contradictory iirc

To a point yeah and as I even said all those years ago I don't even mind when the band is ripping like on the first bit of "entertain"

Carrie doing AMEX ads is definitely 80s Who, though.

I think this was an ITunes bonus track or B-side type thing but it's one my favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etsj2IqxanM

True enough, bt the Who changing from an awesome pop band to a dully leaden rock one is a sore point w me

rip yung croup

i was young, dumb and unedited, but . . .

True enough, bt the Who changing from an awesome pop band to a dully leaden rock one is a sore point w me

― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:54 AM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

For whatever reason, I've never been able to make and/or understand that distinction. They were still making goofy pop singles as late as 1975 (hell, even "Who Are You" is pretty funny), and "leaden" isn't a term I would think could possibly be ascribed to any of their Moon-era live work.

I'm not a Who fan but whatever else the Face Dances singles aren't leaden. The weak link at this point is Daltery, who sings like the guy Bryan Ferry is making fun of in "Love is the Drug."

hahaha otm

Hadn't heard the studio "Everything" before. The first press cds of The Woods came with a short (15-17 minutes) concert dvd filmed at some secret shows they played when they were wood shedding material prior to the sessions. "Everything" was one of the songs, along with "Entertain" which had a different, Corin-sung chorus. At the time I wondered why they left such a good track off the album and on the dvd. Didn't cotton to the itunes thing til way later.

Speaking of first pressing bonus material, for your consideration today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7H30YQjkIg

Two Ballots in. Don't forget/neglect the subpolls! For today's consideration, a Corin Solo jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY7TRjAvgvY

"I'm The Queen of Rock and POLL!!!!!!"_ILM Artist Poll #51_SLEATER-KINNEY_ RESULTS THREAD