help me learn japanese

oh, i didn't mean to imply that i ignore stroke order (though sometimes it is hard to remember for some more complex kanji).

So, I've been in rote mode and been learning five hiragana characters a day. So far I've learnt 30 and I have them down pretty good; stroke order and all. The stroke so far comes naturally, because it's basically up, down, left, right.

I'm still on Pimsleur, but I will be ordering Genki 1 after I finish learning hiragana, katakana, and kanji. Though I guess there are thousands of kanji...so I'll reassess when I get to kanji.

I'm still doing Pimsleur, if only to have the decency to at least be able to say some words in Japanese to my girl and let her brain rest a little from English.

I find it is good for vocab right now, as well.

I'm starting to write characters on my phone but using a keyboard that turns romaji to kanji or whatever, and she's getting a good laugh. It's going so slow and I wish I could go faster, but apparently I'm doing a good job.

Oh, I got hiragana and katakana flash cards, as well.

Kana flash cards with words as well as characters on?

Those are good for the first steps in reading especially given the occasionally chaotic (imho) rendering of Kana-Eigo.

I'm not long back from my trip, tried to read as much Kana as I could, I found some of the fonts kinda troublesome especially the ones that mimic brush strokes.

Well, it's only hiragana and katakana (not kanji). And yes, one side has just characters, and the back has romanisation and English translations of words that use them.

Actually, the flash cards use brush stroke fonts, so, yes, the bottom curve in /sa/ for example disappears a bit then reappears toward the end of the curve. It was confusing at first, but I think I got the hang of it.

These are it: http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Hiragana-Katakana-Flash-Cards/dp/4805311673

I must dig through my cards and find the Katakana for 'Brazil' that was on one.

ブラジル

I'm 38 characters in hiragana.

I guess after I learn those, I should continue with the hiragana with diacritical marks and combos? Or should I learn these later?

There are soooo many. But I'm determined!

my sensei told me that japanese ppl learn the characters w/ diacritics and combos as separate characters, but it's not difficult to remember that き sounds like "ki" and ぎ sounds like "gi", and so on.

^That's what I'm thinking, as well

They are easier to learn but worth learning early. Assuming you're only reading words in hiragana right now, it helps keep your reading speed up not to have to think about it. Also there's some tricky ones like じ.

Ya, I think I'm going to continue with diacritics and combos soon. Then move onto katakana. Feeling pretty good about hiragana. Does it really get easier and easier the more characters you know?

Right now the only thing that troubles me is the fact that I'm learning pretty formal Japanese. So when I talk to my girl she laughs and answers in a way I have never heard before, so she teaches me how to talk informally. She insists I could use boku, for example, but is this really recommended? I'm 31 and I thought boku was for teenagers or used in anime/manga more. I'm still not sure which one to use with my girl. I heard things like anata could be used formally or with a significant other, but I sometimes read contradicting information, as I'm just going through forums.

Thoughts?

I think you're generally taught the formal version in case you need it - in Japan it'd be a hideous faux pas to be all "hey bro, like cool daddio" to your superiors. Once you've got a handle on that the more casual forms make a bit more sense.

I understand. I guess the logic behind not teaching both at the same time is it's just too much to retain? I've not been able to find a good resource for different degrees for formality.

Like, in Spanish, you have formal and informal third person, but they are taught at the same time. I think maybe the concept behind formality in Japanese is different, not just a matter of verb conjugation.

i think the level of formality that's taught to japanese beginners is m/l how you would speak to (most) strangers. talking to your boss would probably be a step up in formality
i assume you've encountered this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific_speech_in_Japanese

^I had not read about it, but I had heard about it casually in general terms, but never this specific.

Thank you

my four-year old daughter just got into a Japanese immersion school. super-stoked

Half way through katakana (finished hiragana), and now my question is:

What is the best method to learn kanji to a level where can I have normal, everyday conversations?

My goal is to be able to converse with natives on deeper subjects, such as literature and, if this is even feasible, philosophy, as well as current events.

I know, it's going to take a lot of effort, but I'm willing to do it!

I just want to hear people's experience

where I can* (maybe I should learn English first)

Oh, and previous suggestions haven't gone unnoticed, by the way.

I am looking to get a penpal. I think that should be good for writing in kanji.

Maybe even a chat/skype buddy could help?

Otherwise, I don't have any plans on going to Japan any time soon.

get started learning the ~2000 jouyou (general use) kanji, which are the kanji used in most newspapers and other publications which japanese students are expected to have learned upon exiting high school. kanji learners dictionaries are really helpful.

using some kind of flash card (digital or otherwise) and writing by hand and learning the stroke patterns are essential for learning kanji.

sounds good, clouds.

i'll search out for good jouyou kanji flashcards. i had a look at some kanji characters closer, and the stroke patterns in itself look daunting, because each character is so complex. i keep wanting to find hiragana or katakana characters in kanji but there is nary a trace of them in it.

has anyone used wanikani, by the way?

actually all kana are based on kanji, but they've been so abstracted it's hard to see unless you know which kanji they're based on. at one point japanese simply used those kanji to stand in for the morpheme, and in some cases that pronunciation is no longer common except in archaic usage.

here's a chart:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/FlowRoot3824.png

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞ after 2 months what do you think was the best know nothing start from scratch way of going about this? esp spoken japanese.

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞ after 2 months what do you think was the best know nothing start from scratch way of going about this? esp spoken japanese.

― dylannn, Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:18 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The best way was to learn basic phrases, any which way. I did it through Pimsleur's. That was just to start SAYING something. I think a lot of beginners have that desire to just speak. And honestly, it doesn't matter what or how you learn the phrases. I started with that audiobook but I also looked online. Translated phrases and asked Japanese friends/acquaintances/people. I used them any time I could.

Learning how to write hiragana/katakana helped tremendously because when people told me how to say something, I had no idea what sounds some were. With learning the basic writing system, I at least was able to visualize the sounds in my head, even though some are still romanized. I'm only just now getting to visualize sounds in kana or whatever.

Lastly, practicing it everyday and squeezing it in conversations with people here and there.

MY UPDATE:

So, after learning hiragana/katakana, I've picked up a "graded reader". It's cool because I can now actually read something and recognize every character, as opposed to reading Japanese newspapers, magazines, or web sites and spotting a few hiragana and katakana here and there.

I bought kanji flashcards and have kind of stopped using Pimsleur's audio CD and have instead bought Genki I + workbook, which is pretty much a standard in this part of the world.

I think I'm finally ready to learn some grammar rules and how to break down some sentences, plus verbs, conjugations, etc.

It helps that I am seeing a Japanese girl, so I ask her a lot of questions, and she talks to me in Japanese sometimes, and she explains some things, such as pronunciation, phrases, informal vs formal differences. She's from Osaka, though, so I know there is a small difference, which is fine, because the more I study Japanese, the less I'm digging Tokyo-style of things (no offence). I still really like and want to learn about Tokyo and many other parts of Japan.

wahh! that was my stream of consciousness opinion

Oh, I forgot to mention, now I watch Japanese movies and YouTube videos a little more and pay attention to pronunciation and phrases. I look to see if I can recognize anything. That helps a lot. This kind of passive and active learning method thing works, I find.

So, all of a sudden, I am extremely interested in Zainichi Koreans and their history and culture. I have always been obsessed with third culture kids, so this is kind of related. I'm kind of a third culture kid and was always interested in identity and definitions of the self that we as a society impose on all individuals.

So I found this girl's YouTube channel and have been watching that.

http://learnjapanesepod.com/kana-invaders/

Deciphered my first katakana word yesterday, karaoke

I'd have thought that would be in hiragana, shows what I know.

カラオケ

Genki III is coming out next year, apparently: http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/archives/3298

(3 columns into Hiragana via a couple of youtube videos but I need to get a rhythm going if I don't want this to fizzle out like most of my big plans :-) )

Have a look at Cure Dolly on YouTube. Once you get past the odd 3D avatar presentation the material is very good and a better introduction to Japanese grammar than most books.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkdmU8hGK4Fg3LghTVtKltQ

The LingoDeer app is pretty good for some basic grammar and practice.

Also once you get your hiragana down, time to get on the WaniKani train

thanks!

どういたしまして