Beer in the new era

Well, I guess except Shiner Bock is generally pretty damn cheap.

Hm, Brutal Bitter does get a 97 on ratebeer. It may be time for a retasting.

I've only recently started actively exploring what's out there so this is all novel to me at least :)

AVOID: New Belgium x Cigar City Lips of Faith.

The bottle has "Best Enjoyed by November 2014" printed on it, good luck with that!

lol what was wrong with it

Dumb question, but is the US the only country with a vibrant and exploding craft beer scene? I honestly have no idea. Other countries seem to be more ... traditional?

I think it has spread to a lot of other countries in the past 10 or so year?

Welp we know there's Mikkeler in Denmark, there's Nøgne Ø and HaandBryggeriet (yes, I copy-pasted those) in Norway, BrewDog in Scotland... Those are the ones that come to mind immediately for me. I think Belgium and Germany's beer cultures could reliably be called "craft" to a large degree, too?

There's a ton of craft beers from Italy too, judging by the selection they have at Eataly.

the italian craft beer scene seemed to be just beginning when i was there, i don't recall seeing more than 2-3 'craft' brands and it seemed to be farmhouse stuff following an agritourism model similar to wine. that was a few years ago though, and we weren't seeking it out by any means cause duh wine

think you could make a much stronger case about belgium and germany always having a solid craft beer scene, not sure how much it's changed in the last 10-20 years but i'd imagine brewers there are benefitting from some of the momentum in the us? i don't know how many new breweries are springing up but i'd guess that beer nerdery in the us and elsewhere has significantly increased the profile of traditional euro breweries. even 20 years ago wasn't hefeweizen still a fairly new and unexplored style?

i'm sure the uk has a strong craft scene too, and iirc that has expanded significantly recently (i remember one article a few years back saying it had doubled?)

think you could make a much stronger case about belgium and germany always having a solid craft beer scene

totally agree, though something about calling centuries-old traditions of brewing a "craft beer scene" seems kind of hilarious

Ten years ago there were (something like) 5 breweries in London; now there are something like 50 and new ones opening all the time; it feels like every other railway arch has a brewery in it now. That's just in London, a similar thing is happening across the UK. Are these "craft breweries" rather than "traditional"? For the most part the answer is yes; the new breweries tend to be quite inspired by the hop-heavy US / New World styles but they also tend to retain some elements of traditional UK brewing, most notably holding on to cask / real ale as a means of delivery, something still pretty rare in the US aiui.

There is a campaign group in the UK called CAMRA - the Campaign for Real Ale: they have, for more than 40 years now, been championing real ale as a product: unpasteurised, unfiltered, cask ale. They succeeded in saving traditional British real ale from near-extinction at the hands of massive companies who were buying up small breweries and selling inferior keg beer, and CAMRA have been a major part in a blossiming of many hundreds of small, local breweries over that time. Are those breweries "craft beer"? By the US definition, yes, but that phrase is used here to mean this new generation of brewers who take the US scene as inspiration and who are often a bit more likely to use keg beer as a means of dispense (sometimes filtered and pasteurised, sometimes not).

There is a bit of a wrangle between some bits of CAMRA who insist that "proper beer" is traditional cask ale delivered in the traditional manner and those who say that really good beer is really god beer no matter how it made it into your glass.

But yeah, there's a massive scene of small-scale local brewing in the UK. Very little of it makes it to the US.

the real ale ppl can def be weirdly partisan but i do wish it was more of a thing in the states. there's an annual cask fest in my area that has some delicious stuff from the u.k.

After a week of drinking real ale in London, drinking an IPA from The Kernel was like a breath of fresh air. I like real ale, but the flatness tends to make me drink it faster, and more of it, so I usually just end up feeling gross.

yeah I am a big fan of carbonation also

there are always a few "cask conditioned" things on tap at local brewers, I believe this is the same thing?

well yes but the real ale ppl will tell you that there's as much a stylistic component (basically low-abv beers with subtle flavors and malt emphasis) as anything.

So, would something like Bell's (unfiltered, but not afaik unpasteurized) hooked up to a typical beer engine be considered "Almost Real Ale"? bc a bar I used to frequent does this sort of thing all the time. (The Globe Pub fwiw Chicagoans)

one of my favorite things I had recently was plain old Bronx Pale Ale on cask

I had Zombie Dust on cask once, it was fantastic.

the camra thing is cool because it's kinda like a d.o.c. stamp of certification for beer culture (as opposed to just the product itself). would be interesting to see that attention to the process of serving / defining beer take hold in other places with different regional styles, but it might be a good thing that you can find something so distinct in london and not in a southern ca suburb or whatever

After a week of drinking real ale in London, drinking an IPA from The Kernel was like a breath of fresh air. I like real ale, but the flatness tends to make me drink it faster, and more of it, so I usually just end up feeling gross.

i felt like this after visiting germany, too. just craving something with more hop flavor after being bombarded with malt and yeast and wheat for a few weeks. hard to say that one is objectively better than the other but i think i am developing a hop dependency

AVOID: New Belgium x Cigar City Lips of Faith.

The bottle has "Best Enjoyed by November 2014" printed on it, good luck with that!

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:16 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol what was wrong with it

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:17 AM

Was this an herb-based beer (had horehound and wormwood on the list of ingredients, among others)? Saw this at WF today and was curious, but didn't buy.

Described as: "Belgian yeast with Anaheim and Marash peppers along with loads of citrusy hops aged on Spanish Cedar."

Didn't get any of that except for the off capsaicin flavors, kind of a dank mildewy flavor. Drain-poured (something I rarely do).

That's nuts. I'd rather have a peanut butter beer.

yeah maybe one too many things in the mix there

i felt like this after visiting germany, too. just craving something with more hop flavor after being bombarded with malt and yeast and wheat for a few weeks. hard to say that one is objectively better than the other but i think i am developing a hop dependency

― hug niceman (psychgawsple), Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:37 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea, it's all about balance. i finished that sierra nevada ipa box and felt like i was needing some bocks, so i went through a couple sixes of bocks. really felt like i wanted something hoppy and floral after that.

As I understand it, in Belgium (in contrast to the UK) the tradition of small, local, high-quality brewing was never under any significant threat. They've always had a tradition of what would be called "craft brewing" there, so there's less of a campaign feel to the culture than there is in the UK. The influence of US brewing has clearly been felt, though; De Struise is probably my single favourite Belgian brewery and they are very happy to play with heavy hopping (with New World hops) and experimental brews. De Ranke and De La Senne are others who IMO show some US influence (the De Ranke XX is really seriously bitter, I don't like it).

As you might expect, the different traditions bring their own strengths and weaknesses: the US is the home to really amazing experimentation but the lack of a deep-rooted continuous tradition has meant a beer culture which has everything all at once and (I think) as a result tends to be a bit stunt-y and a bit faddish; it's also a tradition which has grown up as the same time as twitter culture so really values things which you can describe as distinct.The Belgians (with their belief that only they really understand the very best beer in the world) and the British (with their self-righteous campaigny zeal) have established markets which reward continuity a bit too much, I think.

I wouldn't want to be without any of them; I hope the traditions don't converge.

This last message written after a few pints of cask ale so forgive incoherence.

a bit stunt-y and a bit faddish

What??!? I say good day to you, sir.

Now back to my banana walnut bacon brown ale...

haha that actually sounds good and I don't like any of those things

(in beer)

Otter Creek mini-tasting tonight courtesy of call all destroyer!

Citra Mantra: Really liked this. A wide variety of citrusy hop flavors, maybe leaning a little bit towards lime, all in a light tasting lager package. Light and refreshing but not with the sort of artificially-lighter-flavor of a "session" IPA. I would drink the shit out of this in the summer.

Fresh Slice: Good, but I liked the other one better. Seemed to me like a hoppy hefeweizen, more or less, with traces of the wheaty banana scents and a light finish.

Both were good, the Mantra bordered on ZD levels of hop flavor but with a lager crispness.

Also had a bottle of New Glarus Dubbel, which weirdly smelled like cheap beer basement keg party (wife confirmed this) but had a great fruity, boozy, somewhat malty depth of flavor. A great sipper at 18° Plato (according to the label).

Drinking a central waters 2013 bourbon barrel stout and oh man, peeps can go ahead and keep their bourbon county imo. Stellar.

Also bought a bomber of central waters space ghost to pop at the liquor store as a thanks for some crazy back room freebies, and it was pretty damn good. Stout with ghost peppers (I know I know wait for it)12% abv. Shockingly balanced, heat but not stupid, high abv buried under flavor. $6 bomber. I'm pretty close to central waters evangelist at this point. Not going to lie, half of my share choice was based on "there's no fucking way I am soloing a ghost pepper stout."

That's one I'd buy to share with my macho chile-head friends.

glad you enjoyed the otter creeks, dan! i agree that fresh squeezed is a little hard to love, i'm waiting for warmer weather where i think i'll appreciate the amount of citrus they put in it.

Want to reiterate that the Sierra Nevada Wit is incredibly good!

Space Ghost was good. Not too hot, which I liked. Not as good as the Ghost Pepper Bourbon County I had a few years ago though.

Anyone have the New Holland Dragon's Milk variety with roasted arbol peppers yet? Almost picked one up in Wisconsin, but it must be making its way around.

^^^i was just about to post about that, i split a bottle last night and it's amazing. the heat is a perfect amount, warm but not obnoxious. really want to get some more while it's still around.

haven't had the dragon's milk w/ peppers but i have had the regular dragon's milk, it's outstanding. new holland is pretty great imo

Definitely hoping to taste the BLAKKR, there was a thing on the Decibel blog about that and it sounded pretty interesting.

― an enormous bolus of flatulence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, March 3, 2014 9:31 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Noticed today in Warehouse Liquors tweet that they now have BLAKKR in cans. I guess this is the Surly release of it?

Anyone try the Dogfish Head Aprihop?

xp Yep, Blakkr cans have been available for a month. I got a 4-pack in the mail of Blakkr, Abrasive, Furious and Bender and was really happy with those.

i tried aprihop a long time ago, maybe 5 years ago. someplace had it on draft and it was sublime. i bought some in bottles and shared with some friends and we all thought it was terrible

I tried a sample of aprihop on draft and liked it so I got a growler. Opened it up after a day or two in the fridge and it just tasted off.

Noticed today in Warehouse Liquors tweet that they now have BLAKKR in cans. I guess this is the Surly release of it?

Yeah, I'm guessing it must be because 3Floyds confirmed they were just doing the bombers from their end.

I've had Aprihop on tap and liked it, but can't remember if I've ever bought bottles.

Well, I just bought bottles. Will report. It's hard to believe so many folks love it on tap and hate it in bottles. How radically different could it be? (I will see!).