HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

I imagine when shakey reads terry pratchett he is thinking " HM! Could a giant space turtle REALLY support four giant space elephants AND a whole planet?! SCIENCE, ANSWER ME!"

Giant fire breathing dragons that actually wiped out entire cities and killed thousands trumps scientific models and hypotheses. But speaking of climate change, you'd think some of these dudes might be preparing for potential endless winter, too. Winter is coming, etc. So we've got the threat of dragons (real, recent), snow zombies (mythical) and a long winter (people know about this, right? or was the last Westeros ice age eons ago, too.)

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, April 29, 2014 3:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

well but the targareyan's have been entirely wiped out excepting a teenaged girl from the pov of tywin lannister et al. "winter is coming" is basically a phrase that everyone makes fun of b/c lol the pessimist starks who shut themselves away in the north and are m/l a different race than the Andal people who control the rest of Westeros (excepting Dorne). The threat of dragons that last really laid any kind of waste to westeros is well out of recent memory (all the popular songs now are things like "Rains of Castamere," narratives about political treachery and military strength) and, "whoa a young lady has some dragons on another continent" isn't really actionable intelligence. It's kinda like Who Gives a Shit? The coming long winter, and the Lannister destruction of the bread basket of Westeros in preparation for it, is one of Martin's critiques of the short-sightedness of war and those in power. No matter how little food is available for the "small folk" Tywin and Cersei will have all the feasts they want! There's no sense of need for those in power outside of protecting that power so there will remain no sense of need. And as far as the White Walkers are concerned, it's been literally thousands of years since the wall has really been anything other than a kind of polite prison camp. White Walkers are a fairy tale. The watch is desperate for recruits, why wouldn't they say they've seen mythical bullshit coming to gain more men? They've got like a hundred dudes! They'd do anything for new blood!

anyways i have always read the White Walkers as a metaphor for the inevitable inaction on climate change until it's actually making the rich suffer, so props to whoever brought up the idea.

I usually avoid this thread cos of fear of spoilers and increasing distaste for the show's politics, bt awesome post man

def feel that they lost momentum with the white walkers after the end of season 2 - all that marching towards the wall but where are they now? meanwhile bran suddenly goes from a snail's pace north to suddenly at craster's in just a couple of minutes.

Didn't we determine they're just somewhere ... chillin'?

xpost Someone's been doing some out of class reading! Seriously, though, good post. I'm glad someone is paying attention. Speaking of which, though, the show's done a pretty poor job establishing the extent of poverty, starvation, etc., imo. It all just looks like generic grim movie Medieval misery and squalor to me.

I think the point of Feast For Crows, if indeed there was one, to establish said poverty and starvation. Not much smallfolk action in the first three books.

there's definitely a sense in books 2 and 3 that the countryside and villages have been devestated to a large extent

There are moments in the show where I totally expect it to bust out into:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0

Iirc, the only real glimpse we've gotten of the plebes, at least in King's Landing, is the ep where Joffrey ventures out into the public and almost gets killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI

Sorry, been a while since I watched this, actually.

the thing this season with the hound and arya's encounter with the guy and his daughter was supposed to be a little bit of that flavour i guess

Python or just poor people in general? Because it was a bit of both.

Giant fire breathing dragons that actually wiped out entire cities and killed thousands trumps scientific models and hypotheses. But speaking of climate change, you'd think some of these dudes might be preparing for potential endless winter, too. Winter is coming, etc. So we've got the threat of dragons (real, recent), snow zombies (mythical) and a long winter (people know about this, right? or was the last Westeros ice age eons ago, too.)

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, April 29, 2014 6:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya but dude we see storms and icebergs melting on tv. in GoT there's no mass media or even real historical record and most people cant even read. they have more pressing things to worry about most of the time.

lol Terry Pratchett I ain't reading that crap
xxxxxp

The climate change stuff, sure, I get that. But dragons were 150 years earlier, which is not long ago, and there are actual giant skulls and real proof, and no one denies they existed and killed untold numbers of people. If the US Civil War was filled with game-changing, people-eating fire breathing dragons, I'm not sure any degree of illiteracy would make people forget that. It'd be like the dinosaurs lived not 70+ million years ago but in the 1800s and were a scourge and almost destroyed society.

Do we know if these people age like us humans?

yes but we live in a world of civil war docs and tv shows and books. there's no printing press even in GoT world!

at this point they're basically legendary

Do we know if these people age like us humans?

― Josh in Chicago

They do.

there are actual giant skulls and real proof

None of which the peasants get to see.

I think in a pre-mass media society the boundary between myth and history is far far hazier than what we're used to.

also they do mention them, they're just not freaking out about them, and they dont really have reason to

(that they know of)

I don't think anyone has ever treated dragons as legendary on the show? And why would they? We only disbelieve magic because where told to do so, for the largest part of human history, everyone agreed that a guy could be crucified and then come back to life three days later.

You guys are right that the boundary between myth and history would be hazy, but it really goes in the opposite direction. 150 years after dragons decimated a city, the populace would probably believe that the city had been full of unicorns. Stories rarely became less legendary over time.

also they do mention them, they're just not freaking out about them, and they dont really have reason to

Because they're fire breathing dragons who just a couple of generations ago were actual death-from-above beasts who destroyed cities? If someone had a baby dragon, I wouldn't think, aw, how cute, thank god that will never get bigger and try to kill me. But hey, that's just me.

150 years is really not that long.

ideology can do funny things to historical memory.

I guess it's like, I'm sure we're all concerned about the re-emergence of the far right and neo-Nazism in Europe right now, but we all spend the vast majority of our time worrying about personal shit rather than that. And we have much more direct evidence of that than the people of Westeros do of the return of the dragons.

And we have far less to worry about in our day to day lives.

But then again Nazis can't breath fire... yet.

wouldn't say no to a white walker riding a mostly skeletal unicorn

150 years is really not that long.

well it's a bit longer, in human terms, if ppl die at 50 on the reg

Because they're fire breathing dragons who just a couple of generations ago were actual death-from-above beasts who destroyed cities? If someone had a baby dragon, I wouldn't think, aw, how cute, thank god that will never get bigger and try to kill me. But hey, that's just me.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:41 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya but even the existence of those baby dragons is rumoured at this point

like what do you think would be a "realistic" reaction from the smallfolk, who are all basically starving or about to starve, being tormented by soldiers and mercenaries, and trying to rebuild their burnt-out and ruined lives? to just run around screaming about dragons?

Can't remember, are the Lannisters basically pooh-poohing the the dragon rumours at this point?

Tywin seemed to see Dany + dragons as a legit concern 2 weeks ago. Not top-shelf but in the mix.
But yeah after she'd conquered 3 cities and massing the hordes of (now invisible) Dothraki behind her you'd think there might be a bit more concern.

Yeah, doesn't he recruit the bisexual prince because his family/kingdom helped kill the dragons last time?

I'm not sure what smallfolk should think, since we haven't seen much of them and they have bigger (no) fish to fry. But it's unclear how pervasive the knowledge of the dragons/slave army et al. is at this point. I assume if Tywin knows others must know, right? They all seem so busy scheming for the throne, but if they knew you'd think they'd have some sort of in-case-of-dragon plan in place, too.

lack of information plus abundance of misinformation is a big thing in the books the show can't really capture. plus dragons effectively = a technological advantage, nothing more and one that's been overcome before by the dornes when they were facing actual dragons and not the weak dog size runts dany is rumored to have (if you believe in dragons).

Yeah I guess the show doesn't (can't) show the full scale/scope of this story.

What was all that stuff with the secret society (Dennis pennis maybe was in it?)that Arya stumbled on last series? With the resurrected guy

xposts
yeah - and it was established way earlier that even bumbling old drunk Robert saw the surviving Targaryens as a potential threat before Dany even started busting moves so Tywin and various other plotters should be on the case. Maybe they are and we just don't know yet.

How much do we know about how fast info flows from Essos?

lol

they'll be back. pretty sure we'll see them in the finale.

dragons effectively = a technological advantage, nothing more and one that's been overcome before by the dornes when they were facing actual dragons and not the weak dog size runts dany is rumored to have (if you believe in dragons).

― balls, Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:16 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how did the dornes do it?

magic

They sexed them to death.

smothered by boobs

can u guys be srs for a sec thx

ya but dude we see storms and icebergs melting on tv.

For all the good it's done us.

Yeah, doesn't he recruit the bisexual prince because his family/kingdom helped kill the dragons last time?

Some clarification: Dorne didn't kill the dragons, they're just notorious for having withstood the original Targaryen takeover of Westeros (the Martell's motto is "Unbeaten, unsomethinged, unbowed") -- they're the hot, arid, desert version of Russia, in this case -- and they're viewed as something of a semi-autonomous part of Westeros, if not in a parliamentary sense then at least in style (they call their rulers Princes and Princesses) (though they do have different institutional laws, such as royal women being able to inherit before younger male siblings).

is there info in the books on how they withstood the original Targaryen takeover of Westeros

viet cong styles
but i think they did actually kill a couple of dragons

how do u kill a dragon

dorne seems chill they shd go there in the show