HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

why would there be difficulty when the choice between supporting someone who's been set up to lose and refusing means her death? It's not like anyone there doubted how much Tyrion's own family wanted him dead, so where would be the benefit in testifying for him? she's been positioned as someone interested in her own survival since the beginning.

I'm only saying she'd show some remorse underneath what she is forced to say. That's what I mean by difficult. I'm not saying she would say anything different (except maybe she wouldn't have humiliated him during it as much)

I wasn't advocating she would support him instead or something. So I'll judge the acting once I learn how the Shae character actually feels about Tyrion.

I think you missed the scene in a previous episode where he called her a useless whore in an attempt to drive her from Kings' Landing and she lost her shit.

I remember that, she'd be heart-broken and betrayed but maybe still conflicted? Their dedication to each other wouldn't necessarily be totally wiped away. Her delivery was so cold in the testimony but you'd expect a little remorse to show through, no?

Did you miss all of the rage episodes leading up to that where she'd demand that he acknowledge her and he'd deflect because it would be too dangerous for her and she took it as him not valuing her as woman?

True! So yeah maybe she's completely over him. But right before he broke up with her, in that same scene, she was pretty crazy about him still. That's all.

If there's one thing I think the show has done well, it's the planting of the seeds of discord in the Tyrion/Shae relationship; I don't see how, given the brutality of the rejection he landed on her combined with all of the perceived and real slights on their relationship and her status that have been going on, anyone would expect someone as steely and unbending as Shae to dissolve into a sentimental weepy mess when faced with the opportunity to give back the pain and rejection she's been taking pretty much since they set foot in King's Landing.

re shae's acting ability - i found it impossible to read any subtlety or nuance into her testimony in this last ep. was she angry that tyrion harry and the hendersoned her? was she being threatened? bribed for her testimony? who knows! everything she says she delivers w/ the same monotone.

― Mordy, Monday, May 12, 2014 10:27 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again, this^ I was looking for nuance to clue me in as well. Despite how obvious it may be to anyone else in here?

sentimental weepy mess would have been overkill. I was looking for some dimension.

The nuance could have been anger, that's fine too.

You say nuance, but complain that she's under-acting?

No I'm saying I don't know if she's underacting until I learn how the character feels for real.

I was hoping some nuance would have clued me in. But I'm not entirely sure, maybe Tyrion is truly dead to her.

DJP otm

And Evan, seriously, at some point you have to acknowledge the difference between what you WANT for a character vs how the character, *as written*, would behave given the circumstances

my only complaint is really about the quality of Sibel Kekilli's acting + particularly her line-readings. i can obviously understand the character's motivations just from the context of the script to date. just bc her motivations are transparent doesn't mean she sold it in the performance.

I don't want anything from the character! I was just looking for some subtle information in her delivery.

I was psyched for Bravos but wasn't happy to see Mark Gattis doing the negotiations. I expected some spice-guild weirdos with crazy hats.

I'm getting the feeling that Varys is playing the long game - stoking the fires on Lannister self-destruction to set the stage for the return of Targaryen rule. Does Varys just want to get rid of Tyrion because he knows lil dude is the only one of the Lannisters who is wise and compassionate and potentially a good leader; by getting rid of Dinklage he's just removing a check on Cersei's potential to be bad and hated, maybe?

I dunno, the "I never forget" thing seemed like it signalled he still had something up his sleeve

I expected some spice-guild weirdos with crazy hats.

― lauded at conferences of deluded psychopaths (Sparkle Motion),

Yeah I'm not a fan of how they tone down some of the more lunatic fashions from the books. Where are all the elaborate winged hairdos in Meereen?

I was psyched for Bravos but wasn't happy to see Mark Gattis doing the negotiations. I expected some spice-guild weirdos with crazy hats.

This! Man, white people are everywhere.

I'm getting the feeling that Varys is playing the long game - stoking the fires on Lannister self-destruction to set the stage for the return of Targaryen rule. Does Varys just want to get rid of Tyrion because he knows lil dude is the only one of the Lannisters who is wise and compassionate and potentially a good leader; by getting rid of Dinklage he's just removing a check on Cersei's potential to be bad and hated, maybe?

Still undecided about the extent to which this in aid of a potential Targaryen return, I hadn't considered that angle so much as just Varys wanting to destabilize the Lannisters more generally for his own ends, whatever they may be - the Targaryen thing is as plausible as anything else I suppose.

But yeah I think this is a very solid reading of Varys's actions here. Dude is clearly a shrewd judge of character and obviously it wasn't a coincidence at all that they chose to remind the viewer of that earlier quote from him about Tyrion's heroism. Also him and Tyrion always seem to have got along well enough, or at least demonstrated a certain mutual respect. The ambiguity "Unfortunately I never forget a thing" - "unfortunately" in this case because he's actually genuinely sorry that he's helped to knobble Tyrion in this ridiculous show-trial, but needs must, greater good etc.

Greater good aka good for Varys despite anyone else.

xpost
Yeah maybe pegging it to Targaryens is premature - just giving him credit for being the dude who would know dragonlady's on the rise.

He could just be getting ahead could be other stuff like Iron Bank coming down on the Lannisters or Littlefinger's own anti-Lannister long game.

Team Varys

whatever the direct motivation, makes sense that Varys would want to take Tyrion out just because T is someone who is perceptive and clued-in enough to be a potential problem to him in the future

I love Shae's accent. She can't act, but I like hearing her try.

Shae is a really tedious character in the book too. It would be nice if Sibel Kekilli had more emotional range, but the part is pretty limited.

I get that Shae is mad at Tyrion and it's been building, but her making up a bunch of shit with the intention of getting him murdered seems a bit much. I think she has to have been coached/threatened/etc.

Man this thread is a pain in the ass to load. Too much to ask to get a new thread for Season 5 when the time is right?

I'm probably repeating myself, but, accepting for different strokes & folks, I wonder why we're focusing so much on Sibel Kekilli's acting when Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke have much higher profile roles and are outright terrible.

I think shae is by far the worst

I found it odd that Varys hinted at having ambitions to get to the throne, I thought he always wanted to stay in the background. Wonder if we'll ever see the ambitions of the old man who said extravagant bullshit praise for Joffrey that must have made the whole room cringe?

Would be funny if the show ended with a war between Varys and Littlefinger.

Harrington might not be the most charismatic in the show but I never felt he screwed up any scenes.

He screws up any scene where his mouth hangs open as though he were the simple stable boy.

Yeah, I never got the impression that Varys wanted the throne - that's where the danger is, and you can have more power in the backgroud.

Emilia Clarke have much higher profile roles and are outright terrible.

>:(

I've been thinking about making a thread about acting (unless there is one already) because I'm rarely that bothered by many performances in anything (bad scripts are more of a common problem). Not saying anyone is necessarily wrong about these actors but I think it makes sense that not all characters be totally magnetic (although I would enjoy that; sometimes I thought Oz had an unrealistically high number of fascinating characters, but several things about the show weren't supposed to be completely realistic), I see plenty of people in real life who are kind of monotone and awkward in a way you rarely see in films/tv, and people with weird wavering accents.
In fact I sometimes hear people say things that might be written off as unrealistic dialogue. I remember Chuck Palahniuk saying you often need to tone fiction down because people will find the real events they are based on too far fetched.
I've heard a lot about the books being way way more brutal and nasty but I think even the real world in medieval times was probably way more hellish and undignified than that.

I remember a review of the American Splendor film where the critic said that you'd never believe a real person acts like the actor who plays Harvey's geeky friend until you actually see the real guy later on.

Hasn't our ideas of realism been screwed up by stories?

lol:

But for me, this is like being that paralyzed kid in Game of Thrones who does the Undertaker thing with his eyes and can suddenly see whatever his pet wolf sees.

Hasn't our ideas of realism been screwed up by stories?

― Robert Adam Gilmour

Well stories are under no obligation to be realistic imo, but that's probably another thread.

I found it odd that Varys hinted at having ambitions to get to the throne, I thought he always wanted to stay in the background.

I thought his indicating the throne didn't mean the throne per se, more the concept of power.

Plus he wasn't necessarily being truthful to Oberyn. I actually see Varys as being one of the less self-interested people in King's Landing, though of course I could be wrong.

He's very much interested in preserving his own life, but as far as the usual trappings of power that the other main players chase, he seems to have little appetite for that.

I don't see Varys' testimony as a power play so much as self-preservation. He wanted to help Ned the way he wants to help Tyrion, but only behind the scenes. Once their problems get too public, he joins the dominant side.

varys is the best. would say roose has a slight irish softness to his accent but it's fairly RPish, don't know what gyac is on about

Shae was pretty obviously angry with Tyrion but clearly being threatened / leant on by the most powerful people in King's Landing. Remember they thought they'd got her on the boat and someone clearly stopped that.

Trial scene was awesome, who didn't feel Tyrion's fury at that point? The Theon story on the other hand is the most boring that doesn't involve Bran.

The Iron Bank scene seemed to be foreshadowing that Tywin will die at some point soon and then the Lannisters are boned, especially without Tyrion around.

Ok but RP has a specific meaning, it doesn't just mean "generic posh accent". McElhatton sounds posh, but posh from South Dublin, not David Cameron.

Varys has actually been clear on this point in the series, I thought? He's a foreign spymaster who relies on his information being credible to survive, and he has literally no reason whatsoever to take Tyrion's side without putting himself in the firing line. He's always been upfront about the fact that he has to rely on himself.

iirc Varys was the only witness to tell the truth and hardly a revelatory one (Tyrion demonstrated sympathy for the plight of the Starks clearly enough even before marrying Sansa)

did they imprison Bronn and that's why he wasn't at the trial?

Maybe Bron's lying low to avoid being forced to testify.

Pretty sure that if Tyrion gets out of there then it'll be with Varys's help. The whole thing is basically a battle between Varys and Littlefinger isn't it?

Varys actually walked a very fine line throughout that whole testimony, it was mentioned a couple of episodes ago that Tywin had already got to him, he basically fulfilled the minimum standard for nobbled prosecution witness and no more, and his answer to Tyron's question was highly ambiguous.

I wish Varys was an ILX moderator. He would have created a new thread for each season. He's a details guy.

I have 2 hanging questions about Varys from last episode:
1) did the "unfortunately I remember everything" commment to Tyrion refer to something specific? Trying to remember if Tyrion ever intentionally fucked Varys over. Their last big scene was that weird one where Varys had the evil wizard in a crate. Trying to recall if there's a clue there. Or is it more coded - Varys saying yes, I do remember that you saved King's Landing from invasion and being a right-on Hand of the King, and I can't have you around pulling dope moves like that and messing up my game.

Then again - excellent point that he was truthful and did the bare minimum to stay on Cersei's good side. All he testified to was stuff Tyrion said in front of the whole small council, so if he has to make nice with Tyrion later he can always say he didn't tell them anything he didn't already know.

2) When Varys gestures toward the Iron Throne after saying lack of desire has left him free to pursue other things. I read this as him just saying he's just interested in power and controlling who takes the throne through machinations, not that he has any illusions he could be King himself... that much seems pretty clear. But it does imply a more active role than just self-preservation and allying himself with whoever has the advantage. I think Varys and Littlefinger (in tandem or in opposition) are looking to take the Lannisters out - but neither stands a chance of holding the throne themselves, so who are they looking to put into power when Tommen's head reaches its natural home on the end of a spike?