New York City- classic or dud?

It's classic, the most classic city around. Sure, it can be full of cosmopolitan snobs. It's also full of every other kind of person you possibly want. There is virtually nothing you can't do in NYC, and what you can't do here is within very reasonable distance. It's the center of the world, don't you forget it.

IT IS ALSO STIFLINGLY HUMID IN SUMMER AND GETS SNOW AND CRAP LIKE THAT IN WINTER. Having lived in the state for three years, I am justified in my complaints.

Ergo dud, with blame falling on those damn Dutch bastards who bought the island without knowing any better.

But, I'm gonna save up and buy a place here in 2 years. By the time it's all paid off, I should be able to sell it and retire somewhere else. Rent's just getting out of control. It's going to be simply GHETTO and RICH and no in-between soon enough. Classic in a very evil way, I say.

When I go out there, I'm going to stay at the Four Seasons. Boo-yah.

Snow! An example of nature's rich bounty that I have sworn never to actually live in or near again.

New York = skanky drugged-up-hooker-shooting-heroin-between-her-toes dud. Yes, even the nice parts. I don't CARE if everything supposedly happens there.

But New York City--why did I ever leave you? Well, maybe cause I was tired of paying $1000 a month for a dumpy little closet crammed with books and records and clothes. And the nightlife wasn't what it used to be. I thought the wide open spaces of Southern California would do a neo-nature lover like me good.

And it did work out that way, it's just that there's no city in the world as exciting as New York and I really think I need some excitement in my life these days.

San Francisco's OK, it reminds me more of Boston than NY. Much better record stores than NY or LA, though. I agree, Sean.

Don't even drag Chicago into this, Ally. Please. I've already got a girlfriend moving to New York in two days, spending four times what I pay in rent for an apartment approximately as big as my bathroom, and now she's somehow convinced me to go out there and visit, just to see if my uninformed prejudices somehow vanish and I decide that I want to live there. But you know what? I like Chicago. A lot. And in order for me to decide that I'd rather spend $2000 a month to live in what is currently my bathroom, it would have to be demonstrated to me that New York is four times as cool as Chicago is -- or, actually, cooler, in that it'd have to be cool enough to justify my going into a whole different line of work just to afford an apartment and then dragging myself out of said apartment because it'd be so damn crappy and enduring night after night of going out to bars with millions of annoying people who can't go home either because they live in apartments the size of bathrooms. And I just don't think it could be that cool. I just refuse to believe that.

And yet I'm still going to go out there, for some reason. You see what happens when you love people?

Arthur - I THINK I've been there, once. Small li'l place, I think. Whenever I went to New London, it was to go to the Secret Theatre / Temporary Autonomous Zone (a non-profit art-space that used to host live music, and still puts on plays every so often). And perhaps the El-n-Gee (a seedy li'l "punk" club, usually filled with the types of folks being discussed and dismissed on the "emo" thread), once in a blue moon.

Of course, CT is a place where kids grow up drunk and stoned. Pardon my generalization. People here are all sorts of screwed up, though - they riot at DAVE MATTHEWS BAND concerts.

That's easy for you to say, Ally, considering you work in real estate. :)

Besides, that's a pretty non-functional argument when it comes to developing a general picture of a city -- you could live in a 10,000 square foot penthouse for $1 a month, and that still wouldn't change the fact that rental in Manhattan is significantly more expensive than in any other major city in the U.S. (with the possible exception of San Francisco), mainly because of (a) industries like mine which are completely Manhattan-bound, and (b) people like you who convince everyone that New York is so great that they should move there and increase rental demand even more.

I don't doubt that New York is a lovely, lovely place. But I can't really think of anything I'm particularly interested in that New York has and Chicago doesn't, and I can't imagine that anything about New York is so superior to Chicago that it makes up for the expense and annoyance and provincialism. Because let's face it: New York is, paradoxically, the most provincial city in the U.S.

Ok, so how about the people? Everyone thinks NYC is so rude, but living in SF, I prefer New Yorkers. The average person here is passive-agressive as hell, nobody makes eye-contact with you, yet paradoxically, everyone's all full of themselves and smug. Give me a forthright New Yorker anyday. I think I'd still rather live here though.

Anyhow, I don't like NYCers as rude people stereotype because I don't find it to be true. Fast moving, yes. Which means that they aren't going to strike up a conversation with you standing on the subway or something, unless they are insane and/or unemployed. If you look lost, they aren't going to offer help. If you ask nicely, they'll help though. I've never been to a city with people so willing to help people cross the street, give out directions (correct ones!), tell how to get to places, give advice. Everyone is very friendly. People just mistake natural defenses as being rude, generally because they are from hick towns and aren't used to having to have any defenses.

Dave-Yeah, it's a little olde tavern, has something to do with Eugene O'Neill lore. I missed the whole Secret Theatre scene but I used to hang out at the El 'n' Gee when it was filled with the types of folks being discussed and dismissed on the "pub rock" thread, if there ever was one. There was also a big blooze scene when I was a teen which I found completely repulsive. Roomful of Blues at the Shaboo in Willimantic! Barf! Emo makes much more sense.

Was there really a riot at a Dave Matthews concert in CT? Awesome!

And having lived in a redneck asshole town - no, people in hick towns do NOT help each other as much as NYers do. It's just simply untrue.

And you are coming here again why, NS?

Being defensive isn't some great thing and neither is "street smarts." I'd rather be in a "hick town" where people aren't so jumpy and "defensive" (I would also describe them as OFFENSIVE). Who is stupider, a relaxed guy or a stressed out "defensive" guy? Don't get me wrong, though. I like NY. I just don't like the whole "center of the world" thing that goes on in people's heads here. It's the "I'm better, me first" thing everywhere you go.

BTW, The Stepford Wives was filmed in part in my boyhood hometown of Darien, Ct.

its so crazy how every park in boston and new york is designed by that guy

My friend starts as a PP Zoo docent this spring! I will go to see her handle snakes & kiss the kissing pygmy goat.

SHEEP SHEARING, MAY 3 AND 4. C U THERE, IAN.

also Rock Creek Park in DC.

xp: reminds me. what ever happened to fact checking cuz?

is that hands-on civilian sheep shearing?

Sheep shearing?

they don't do it themselves, ed.

fact checkin cuz still posts on ILM i think. as factcheckr

is he tremendoid?

Doing it in the park
Doing it after dark
Ooh yeah
Rock Creek Park
Ooh yeah
Rock Creek Park:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-UxdI0jh8Uk

can anyone recommend a good bio of olmstead?

http://www.amazon.com/Clearing-Distance-Frederick-Olmsted-America/dp/0684865750

-- Mr. Que, Monday, April 14, 2008 3:06 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

so this is good que? that's the one google came up with for me but it looks like it might be super boring.

I never knew of that Blackbyrds song, and I am psyched to learn of its existence

^^^

hey bell labs i haven't actually read that book but that's the only one I know of about olmsted. i remember when it came out, i was working in a bookstore, and it got a lot of attention here's an interview w/the author:

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/ba990714.htm

maybe borrow from a library instead of buying a copy and if it sucks you haven't wasted any $$

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/mytown-newyork.html?c=y&page=2

whoops, that should have started with page 1

florent to reopen with same menu, same staff - but without Flo

http://www.observer.com/2008/real-estate/meatpacking-cooked

Nobody here ever answered me about whether or not Howe meant what I suspected he meant.

I would ask him personally, but he's all dead and stuff.

recap

Rangel, Rangel, Rangel.

http://ventriloquismnyc.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/welcoming-the-age-of-yupres-young-urban-pre-professionals/

A thing that always gets on my nerves here: stuff that is really good always has wait times/reservation difficulties that are disproportional to how much better the thing is. So you have to wait 2.5 hours to eat the best brunch in NYC and thus kill a lot of the point of brunch which is to spend your Sunday in a leisurely way. Or you settle for any old brunch. I prefer the second option but I hate how you never even get the chance to do the really good things if you don't want to wait in endless lines or go at weird-ass times.

Suspect part of the problem is the elevation of some stuff to "really good" status in the first place. It's like, how "special" does brunch really need to be?? In a smaller city/town, there might only be a few places or one or two places in each neighborhood, that were, like, famous for brunch. You would just go there. There might still be a long line, though, and then what?

At least here you can just go somewhere "adequate" if the other conditions are unacceptable.

That's true. Although there are some neighborhoods where the genuinely good options are all mobbed on a nice day -- e.g. yesterday I was in Mad. Sq. Park. Shack Shack was jammed, Eataly was jammed, new taco place had lines out the door, everything else seemed to be garbagy panini delis or chain fast food. Maybe if I had known better where to look. I settled for mediocre street cart halal.

Also I guess it's just a sense that you live in NYC and pay a shitload more to do so because you DON'T just want to settle for so-so neighborhood place, because you're supposed to have access to the best everything, and yet the "access" is an illusion because things have lines that are too long and/or cost too much.

Sorry these are dumb posts I'm grouchy.

no joke, so excited to have these problems

Well your first problem was being in Madison Square Park, obv.

"The best of everything" is an illusion, too.

Sorry, I don't mean to be deny-y of your problems! But like, they don't need to be problems except in the situation of specific expectations that are far from universal.

Also trying to brunch in somewhere like Grammercy-area and finding lines is like being mad that you can't drive through Times Square without having to wait for tourists to cross the street. I'm not in New York to drive through Times Sq and I'm not in NY to brunch with yuppies who pay $6000 a month in rent and patronize their upscale local restaurants accordingly.

I guess I just see huge parts of what people write about and talk about and desire as "the best" as being Not For Me (Or My Kind). I don't go there, I don't know about them, and I never expect to do either. I know this isn't true, it's just my perspective, but also I'm busy as it is and not exactly running out of places to go so it doesn't feel like a loss or anything.

Also, wanting to participate in things that are way beyond my financial reach or just not how I live is a really bad idea for me, because it results in such frantic unhappiness and such a horrible feeling of being shut out or left behind or perpetually failing/under-achieving compared to hypothetical others. It's much better for me to narrow my focus and be content with my lot.

What is the name of this place that is supposed to be the best brunch in NYC?

Imna go neg thier yelp so next time the line isnt so long for u

Also, everything is so damn dirty. How do New Yorkers hold on to railings in the subway then molest pizza slices before eating them without a thought? Every little thing is caked with exhaust-grime.

Venting cause I come from a wooded area so I usually miss the fresh air.

Anyway, back to being upset about the city having too many people.

settling for mediocre halal is still better than settling for taco bell or a frozen dinner from the supermarket imo.

Is it? Who has higher standards?

Actually Taco Bell in NYC is probably the lowest you can get.

I will wait in long lines if I have someone to talk to, RARELY... otherwise, fuhgeddabout it. I have a MoMA membership and go in the galleries about 3x a year. Too fucking crowded, ALWAYS. (they have members-only previews, which I never go to for unknown reasons)

ian, wanna go to late 1920s vaudeville shorts at the FF Monday night? (or anyone else)

http://www.filmforum.org/films/vitaphone/PDF1VitaNotes.pdf

Honestly I am just grouchy -- in finals and had my job offer pulled away last minute for economic reasons. I normally don't make these kind of complaints and happily just go to the seventeenth best brunch or whatever.

Plus my neighborhood still has a relatively nice balance where you can go to really good places that AREN'T always insanely jammed, with the exception of maybe Frankies Spuntino which I haven't been able to get a reasonable wait time for yet. Also Lucali is crazy, but if you show up before they open you don't wait so long.

I think long lines that are not equivalent to the payoff are pretty endemic of every big city!

settling for mediocre halal is still better than settling for taco bell or a frozen dinner from the supermarket imo.

― one dis leads to another (ian), Friday, May 6, 2011 5:40 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Not even a truth bomb; just fact

the solution is just not to eat in manhattan unless you have to

Don't eat in Manhattan - brunch at least. Below 110th.

People in Brooklyn get to spend less, and avoid Euro-handbags. And there are actual food people cooking.

searchable old photos of NYC from the library archives

you're welcome

http://www.oldnyc.org/

ah yes i remember it well

http://gothamist.com/2016/07/13/nyc_1976_in_8mm.php