We were all utterly wrong, a misjudgment that, from a distance of 25 years, dwarfs all the other errors and miscalculations of my own and others’ coverage of the events of June 1989.We erred in calling it the “Tiananmen Massacre” when nearly all of the killing in Beijing occurred outside the square itself and the crackdown extended far beyond the capital to cities across China.We should never have labeled the protests simply a “pro-democracy movement” when many of the protesters were angered more by surging prices and corruption than the party’s regular but entirely phony elections.We should never have given credence to rumors, stoked by Western intelligence agencies, of an imminent civil war fed by very real splits at the summit of the Chinese leadership.Most of all, though, our mistake in Tiananmen was to think that the Chinese Communist Party had, like its counterparts across East and Central Europe, somehow lost its will to power – and the will and means to make people forget.— Andrew Higgins
We erred in calling it the “Tiananmen Massacre” when nearly all of the killing in Beijing occurred outside the square itself and the crackdown extended far beyond the capital to cities across China.
We should never have labeled the protests simply a “pro-democracy movement” when many of the protesters were angered more by surging prices and corruption than the party’s regular but entirely phony elections.
We should never have given credence to rumors, stoked by Western intelligence agencies, of an imminent civil war fed by very real splits at the summit of the Chinese leadership.
Most of all, though, our mistake in Tiananmen was to think that the Chinese Communist Party had, like its counterparts across East and Central Europe, somehow lost its will to power – and the will and means to make people forget.
— Andrew Higgins
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:07 (nine years ago) link
Sort of amazing
http://i.imgur.com/L0mgzZC.png
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:10 (nine years ago) link
wow
― balls, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:14 (nine years ago) link
Also amazing http://i.imgur.com/VXjCdqZ.png
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:18 (nine years ago) link
I visited Tiananmen Square in April this year, not really by plan; me and my friend just happened to get off the bus there and we decided to do it
We had to go through two security checkpoints just to get in. Thanks to Beijing's brilliant urban planning you had to go through the Beijing subway just to get to the side that had access to the square. Once you had exited the subway there was another security checkpoint. Everybody has to go through metal detectors and give their bags up for X-raying
My friend (who's a PRC national) had a bookbag with just one book in it. The guard told him that he had a "sheaf of leaflets" inside his bag. My friend produced his book (some book on how to do business) and asked her if that was what she meant. She said yes, and he told her that it was a book, it wasn't leaflets. She told him technically a book was a pile of leaflets since both were made up of pages of paper. Can't remember who ended the conversation but we continued on. My friend was really peeved. Meanwhile on our way out of Tiananmen we passed by three or four people handing out real estate flyers
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:27 (nine years ago) link
I guess there's also this http://gawker.com/twenty-five-years-later-it-is-always-june-4-1989-1585624885 but tbh I'm not sure how much time I have for metaphysical ruminations
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:31 (nine years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/S6pp3eQ.jpg
Vincent Yu
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:32 (nine years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/LJN1Pif.jpg
Liu Heung Shing
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:33 (nine years ago) link
has anybody read luisa lim's book about tiananmen yet? i read a review somewhere the other day and it sounds solid. also can anyone recommend chinese history texts generally? i'm reading henry kissinger's book about china right now and it's really interesting but i can't help but feel like he's an unreliable narrator given what i know of his character generally.
― building a desert (art), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:35 (nine years ago) link
Keep seeing references to L. Lim's book "The People's Republic of Amnesia," but have not read it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/25-years-of-chinese-silence-about-tiananmen-square-is-long-enough/2014/05/30/b67bedae-e679-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:40 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFzeNAHEhU
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 17:44 (nine years ago) link
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/02/im_scared_to_discuss_tiananmen_and_internet_partly_to_blame
The immense interest among those jiulinghou who are in the know has not translated into active discussion, let alone action. Not all of us think it was wrong to use force against the protesters. And we certainly do not all think China should adopt Western-style democracy. But whatever our views are, we dare not openly discuss them online, in public forums, or even in private chats. And since the Internet is where my generation goes to communicate, we are essentially deprived of the chance to engage in civil discourse.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/03/mapping_the_protests_that_swept_china_before_and_after_tiananmen
^ One fact that is often overlooked is how many sister protests there were going on nationwide
― 龜, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 22:42 (nine years ago) link
http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/2014/06/02/qa-stuart-franklins-view-on-tiananmen-square/
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/photography-blog/2014/jun/03/stuart-franklin-tiananmen-square-tank-man
The majority of journalists were not there to witness the scene; lots had moved to another hotel and missed the 'tank man' moment. Most of them started at the Beijing Hotel, but the food wasn't great. Another place nearer the airport did hamburgers, so they had decamped and got stuck outside the city by blockades at the point of the crackdown.
― 龜, Thursday, 5 June 2014 10:34 (nine years ago) link
Imagine missing out on one of the most iconic moments of 20th century history because you wanted a cheeseburger, because you were sick and tired of mapo dofu
― 龜, Thursday, 5 June 2014 10:43 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHFD1sEqpE
― 龜, Thursday, 12 June 2014 17:34 (nine years ago) link
http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php?page=all
― 龜, Sunday, 15 June 2014 13:06 (nine years ago) link
the church of almighty god took out a fullpage nyt ad???
https://twitter.com/Garvey_B/status/478102017710125056/photo/1
― dylannn, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 02:59 (nine years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/18/opinion/murong-chinas-clampdown-on-evil-cults.html?_r=0
and murong xuecun on cults
― dylannn, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 03:00 (nine years ago) link
Is that the cult that killed the woman in the McDonald's
― 龜, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 03:04 (nine years ago) link
the same
― dylannn, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 07:26 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8I5Z01OKvw
http://www.stuckincustoms.com/2014/06/19/dji-quadcopter-china-detention
― dylannn, Sunday, 22 June 2014 09:16 (nine years ago) link
The footage is cool, the "I was detained by POLICE!" part is such a non-story I want to die
― 龜, Sunday, 22 June 2014 12:12 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8vAFlCeFQ
Just finished this
Great doc
― 龜, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 12:05 (nine years ago) link
http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-tiananmen-square-attack-video-20140624-story.html
― 龜, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 16:46 (nine years ago) link
In much less serious news, China is, along with Kenya, a featured country at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival on the national mall in Washington D.C. this year. Not sure who chose the musicians and craftspeople but here's some links:
http://www.festival.si.edu/2014/China/
http://www.festival.si.edu/visitor/evening.aspx special evening concerts with some including : the Flower Drum Lantern performance group, Quanzhou Puppet Troupe, Zhejiang Wu Opera Troupe, singers of hua’er folksongs, Inner Mongolian band Ih Tsetsn, the Miao Music and Dance Group, and the Bimen Brothers and Family, Qiang polyphonic singers.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 20:21 (nine years ago) link
http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/25/to-chinese-embassy-united-states-address-no-1-liu-xiaobo-plaza/
Good trolling
― 龜, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 23:30 (nine years ago) link
That looks cool, wish I could go! xp
http://news.163.com/14/0626/08/9VLDML4E00011229.html
to celebrate international day against drug abuse and illicit traffickingcctv brings you a televised confession
― dylannn, Thursday, 26 June 2014 13:45 (nine years ago) link
http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/go-south-to-guangzhou-a-home-away-from-home/
Good
― 龜, Monday, 14 July 2014 00:08 (nine years ago) link
yeah, i like that
― dylannn, Monday, 14 July 2014 03:46 (nine years ago) link
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1552822/leading-broadcaster-rui-chenggang-detained-cctv-graft-investigation
fucking rui chenggang gets locked up in a graft investigation
also lol guo meimei boasts about gambling on weibo gets locked up too
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/chinas-infamous-guo-meimei-notorious-for-her-extravagant-lifestyle-has-been-arrested-for-illegal-world-cup-gambling/story-fnk822dn-1226987180331
― dylannn, Monday, 14 July 2014 03:48 (nine years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/notes/penguin-books-in-china/were-hiring-acquisitions-editor/10152292610389331
― 龜, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 10:52 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdnZlynWFMs
NSFW
― 龜, Monday, 28 July 2014 01:33 (nine years ago) link
http://america.aljazeera.com/multimedia/photo-gallery/2014/7/china-s-muslim-women.html
― 龜, Monday, 28 July 2014 22:57 (nine years ago) link
how close to collapse was the existing ccp regime at the time of the tianenmen square protests?
― tao lin comment boxing (nakhchivan), Friday, 22 August 2014 00:39 (nine years ago) link
Before or during? I'd say not very
― 龜, Friday, 22 August 2014 00:52 (nine years ago) link
When you start from as low a place as China did after Mao's death in 76 it's hard for things not to improve and keep on improving
― 龜, Friday, 22 August 2014 00:57 (nine years ago) link
that was my supposition, but the ccp hierarchy possibly felt differently in the midst of it.....that things could spread to other cities, other social groups etc
that is unverifiable of course
― tao lin comment boxing (nakhchivan), Friday, 22 August 2014 00:59 (nine years ago) link
Well the narrative that makes the most sense to me is that the protestors were marching against crony capitalism as much as they were for a form of democratic government and a bill of rights
i.e. the pie was growing very quickly and the hundred surnames sensed that the gains were mostly going to those in the Party
I think the Party probably did balance precariously during the protests, the protests had spread to all major cities nationwide
But if the question is about the danger of collapse from internal factionalism, I don't think that was a threat
― 龜, Friday, 22 August 2014 01:04 (nine years ago) link
idk enough about the facts but i had got the impression that casting it into the human rights freedom and democracy procrustean narrative form was not telling the whole story
― tao lin comment boxing (nakhchivan), Friday, 22 August 2014 01:13 (nine years ago) link
Yeah from what I've read the push for democracy and freedom of [x] is what gets emphasized, it carves a very neat symbolic totem for the West
The initial protests were sparked by students but the momentum was sustained by workers and laborers in addition
― 龜, Friday, 22 August 2014 01:19 (nine years ago) link
I think another way of framing your question nakh is asking how close the PLA was to siding with the protestors
And I think the answer was, not very
But that didn't mean the PLA automatically was going to do the bidding of the CCP either
Calling in the PLA to act on Tiananmen cost the CCP a lot of political capital, I think, and has made the CCP much more susceptible to PLA influence since, on a permanent basis
An authoritarian governments needs a final source of authority, after all
― 龜, Friday, 22 August 2014 02:00 (nine years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/world/asia/8-people-executed-in-xinjiang-on-terrorism-charges-china-says.html
― Mordy, Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:46 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/you-guide-to-the-latest-grim-news-out-of-china/379436/
― 龜, Wednesday, 3 September 2014 12:42 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-01/13/086r-011300-idx.html
this is kind of fascinatingxi'an underworldstolen pistollittle orchidbill clintonmassive manhunt
― dylannn, Sunday, 14 September 2014 04:40 (nine years ago) link
not a current event but learned about it from annotation bad translation yi sha poem
― dylannn, Sunday, 14 September 2014 04:41 (nine years ago) link
Read the new-ish Evan Osnos & Howard French books lately, both p.good in a chatty (well, letting others chat) New Yorker-y way.
Seems like Xinjiang's gotten pretty travel-restricted re: needing ID at all times w/it determining whether yr permitted to move outside the region, according to a prof who's just come back from a conference. Was hoping to head to XJU for six months (I'm heading over to GuangWai in early Feb for at least a semester), but I'm not too sure the CI'll be too keen on foreigners in the north-west, heh.
― etc, Sunday, 14 September 2014 23:17 (nine years ago) link
Just promise to faithfully and truthfully report on every ethnic incident you see and I'm sure you'll have no problem
― 龜, Monday, 15 September 2014 14:45 (nine years ago) link
Ma told CNBC that he had got the idea for his business when he visited the US, and looks to Forrest Gump for inspiration. Ma said he had watched the Tom Hanks movie at least 10 times.
“Every time I’m frustrated, I watch the movie,” he said. “I watched the movie again before I came here. It’s telling me: ‘No matter what changes, you are you.’”
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Saturday, 20 September 2014 15:33 (nine years ago) link