sam smith: another adele/emeli sandé or something more interesting?

I can relate to it! It had a big, dumb, sad tune and the lyrics appealed to big, simple emotions that I and everyone experience, albeit in much more complex ways. Then it lost my interest.

I tend to think of this as the reverse-magic-trick fallacy: when we hear music that we want to dismiss, our experience is of seeing through it, like we're watching a magician's show but can see the wires: "I can see why other people like it, but really it's just X, there's no magic here."

But this "seeing through" is not the same as "seeing" at all.

It's only when we begin to actually relate to music - that is, to position ourselves in relation to it - that music begins to seem infused with that quality of genuine connection that we associate with music that we're into.

This can be instantaneous, the first time we hear a piece of music, or it might take some time to work, or it might never happen. Typically, the more primed you are to believe something (typically because you're already invested in the stylistic signifiers) the faster that effect.

But I can think of countless examples of stuff I dismissed in this way and then much later fell in love with, became enchanted by, as if I was watching the same trick but somehow I couldn't see the wires or anymore, and I was convinced by the magic.

Not saying this will ever happen to anyone in this thread with Sam Smith, but I think as a general rule the critical stance of "I get it but I don't like it, and I don't like it because I get it" should be approached with some care for the above reason.

half-wondering if with that fiendishly bland opening post dyl always intended to be the montresor to imago's fortunato

lol i didn't imagine he would even bother wandering into this thread! but it has made for an interesting read in the end.

in pace requiescat.

also xps to monotony above i'll agree that his fairly casual coming-out has been somewhat heartening even if it did seem very deliberately unfurled

I dunno, I sorta feel like if record company strategy had been brought to bear on the issue he wouldn't always look like he's in theatre make-up.

I tend to think of this as the reverse-magic-trick fallacy: when we hear music that we want to dismiss, our experience is of seeing through it, like we're watching a magician's show but can see the wires: "I can see why other people like it, but really it's just X, there's no magic here."

But this "seeing through" is not the same as "seeing" at all.

It's only when we begin to actually relate to music - that is, to position ourselves in relation to it - that music begins to seem infused with that quality of genuine connection that we associate with music that we're into.

This can be instantaneous, the first time we hear a piece of music, or it might take some time to work, or it might never happen. Typically, the more primed you are to believe something (typically because you're already invested in the stylistic signifiers) the faster that effect.

But I can think of countless examples of stuff I dismissed in this way and then much later fell in love with, became enchanted by, as if I was watching the same trick but somehow I couldn't see the wires or anymore, and I was convinced by the magic.

Not saying this will ever happen to anyone in this thread with Sam Smith, but I think as a general rule the critical stance of "I get it but I don't like it, and I don't like it because I get it" should be approached with some care for the above reason.

― Tim F, Saturday, June 14, 2014 1:07 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ah Tim! must you ever be the rock upon which I am fated to dash myself

Is imago l0u1s jagg3r? I haven't been keeping up

do I scent the musty approach of a well-worn ad hominem

I don't think - or I can't detect that - there was an artistic intention beyond wanting 'to be a star' through the most direct available route. Obviously he'll have music he prefers, music he's grown up with, but I genuinely think he's chosen to play the music he thinks will make him the most famous. For all I know he's a big Miles Davis fan, but isn't learning the trumpet any time soon. Of course, I can't prove his intentions, and ultimately his music is ours to interpret. But there are ways of veering adult-contemporary, and on my two listens through the single that began this thread I couldn't detect any sophistication at all. You may disagree.

Debility of talent is a symptom of wanting the buck of stardom too easy, maybe?

― Who whom kissed? (imago), Friday, June 13, 2014 6:34 PM (Yesterday)

i'm often interested in your thoughts on & taste in music, but i can't get on board w/ this. afaic, "debility of talent" isn't even a thing in itself, much less a symptom of something else. it's a perceptual phantom, an artifact. you detect no talent because you've framed "talent" in such a way as to exclude whatever it is that dude is actually good at. period.

personally, i wouldn't equate perceived "sophistication" with the presence of legitimate art. art exists in an infinite variety of forms; some seem sophisticated to me, and some don't. i hardly imagine, however, that my perception of such things means much to anyone who isn't me. i mean, you say you can't detect "artistic intention" at work here, but what on earth is "artistic intention" in the first place? how do we detect it? (once you get an answer together) really? really really?

i get that you don't like this shit. i don't either. but going any larger than that without tongue very firmly in cheek seems a bit absurd.

personally, i get tired of "the amount of leeway ILM gives not to pop" artists "straddling dance and r&b" (if you'll forgive the frankenquote), but happily chalk it up to personal/generational differences of taste

"...ILM gives not to pop"

lol

"debility of talent" was nakhers' introduction, in fact, and I'm interpreting it as a perceived (by me) lack of ability to make classic (loaded, subjective term) pop music when he has all the money he could want to do so - nothing about the song I heard seemed to have anything about it to differentiate it from the throng, or indicate that it could be a major cultural force beyond its imminent moment. these are highly personal projections, of course, but i feel one can comment on 'talent' from an outside perspective as long as you frame it subjectively & accept that some degree of 'talent' does exist, if not to the degree you'd desire

your second point is harder to counter. tim f has already made it very eloquently (in the post I admiringly quoted). my only comeback would be that i really don't hear anything particularly unusual or novel being attempted, which for me bespeaks either pastiche or artistic exploitation, depending on your view. (if you go to a blues bar, you wouldn't accuse the players of exploiting the form, but is not the whole concept a joyful & worthwhile pastiche of the culturally-accepted blues experience as well as an iteration of it?)

yuk @ changing horses from 'one' to 'you' mid-stride there

yeah, that tim post was brilliant, esp the single-sentence 2nd paragraph. boom.

my Clear Channel station played "Latch," 18 months after I first heard it.

A week ago, a DJ on mine said "new from Disclosure, this is 'Latch'!"

Look, they had to cross an ocean.

Look, "Bohemian Rhapsody" went to #2 in 1992.

New from Queen, this is Bohemian Rhapsody (ft. Sam Smith)

Something something Coldplay.

look "white noise" would be an infinitely better crossover than "latch"

maybe that'll happen next

I don't know that Aluna has a vocal that mainstream America is willing to get behind; people will get behind an airy kewpie-doll voice (see: Ciara) but

Dammit

As I was saying, Aluna has a core to her sound that works well on that track but I don't know if it plays well to what US radio is looking for

Ciara's smooth though. Aluna's occasionally jarring.

I would've said the same thing about sam smith's voice though

And though "Body Party" reached #22 in the US, it's not like radio stations are falling over themselves to play Ciara.

Latch is the worst Disclosure song and this guy's flaccid voice is the main reason why, and that Naughty Boy track would not be harmed in the slightest by removing him altogether.

I've not heard his solo stuff but he's such a terrible fit for current UK dance pop that I'm actually glad he's doing whatever else he's doing instead of getting in the way of music I actively listen to.

Admittedly that hasn't stopped producers putting Sande all over everything.

The thing about White Noise is a that it has a massive nagging hook that's nothing to do with the vocals, which Latch conspicuously lacks.

I've no idea what plays well on American radio, mind. Do they even play much massive stadium EDM?

harsh to not give an option stating he's not even nearly as interesting as Adele tbph

lol I just realized I live near a Sam Smith Park ;_;

Good thread.

Also I hadn't realized that "Latch" had become a hit in the U.S.! I think I noticed that it had debuted at #99 but missed its ascendance. Haven't heard it on the radio yet.

The thing about White Noise is a that it has a massive nagging hook that's nothing to do with the vocals, which Latch conspicuously lacks.

I've no idea what plays well on American radio, mind. Do they even play much massive stadium EDM?

― Matt DC, Monday, June 16, 2014 4:20 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lots of big hits in the US in recent years have been those dance tracks where a lot of the hook is a long instrumental riff. I seriously doubt anything from Disclosure would be a pop hit right now if not for Sam Smith's career taking off, though, "Latch" entered the charts here right on the heels of "La La La" and his SNL booking.

"latch" is def riding the sam smith wave to US radio but i think that song helped legitimize him -- even here -- to the point where it could even circle back like that in the first place

also this is a loose anecdotal hypothesis but based on having seen some disclosure and EDM shows, there is more audience crossover than you might think and i think there was a slow groundswell from that base that elevated "latch" in america finally as well

Yeah that def seems true. I think the dance features did a lot to set up his album

It makes zero sense that Ed Sheeran's album is more upbeat, and at times, dancier than Sam Smith's, considering the latter has built up his rep on dance numbers (not incl. "Stay With Me", I guess).

"restart" is incredible, i'm really mad that sam smith isn't trying to be millennial darryl hall or something

Yeah, we got stuck with chromeo dude

Update: Just heard "Latch" on the radio yesterday afternoon.

it's been getting radio play across the country.

Update: Just heard "Latch" on the radio yesterday afternoon.

― jaymc, Monday, June 23, 2014 5:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fascinating and important update in the career of a major label artist

lol

I heard Ed Sheeran yesterday and it wasn't a pleasant experience.

there's some Ed Sheeran song getting play on VH-1 that is an uncanny Timberlake impersonation, it's kind of incredible

fascinating and important update in the career of a major label artist

No, it was an update on my post from Saturday in which I said I hadn't heard it on the radio yet.

good, i was dying for an update on that post

lexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

they def play "latch" on z100 all the time

where would ilm be without americans saying "I heard a thing on the radio"

very true, it's in the board's dna

ya interrupting the other vital work that goes on like