rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

i'm hispanic and i use 'people of color' regularly. my dad who is an immigrant HATES 'people of color' to him it's exactly the same as "colored people." when my brother went to college, he received a letter of welcome from the students of color organization and my dad flipped out and was so offended that they were labeling my brother as "colored." i tried to explain to him that the term "people of color" is widely used by anti-racism activists as a way to promote solidarity among nonwhite people but he didn't really get it. in the same conversation i told my mom that "queer" was reclaimed similarly by LGBT communities and she was very surprised.

i also use 'non-white' fairly often too.

i understand why someone would find 'people of color' just as meaningless as 'people of ethnicity' but i find the latter to be very clunky. but yet all of these terms locate whiteness as the norm/center, and i don't know if you can get away from that in a world where whiteness is exactly that.

i don't know if you can get away from that in a world where whiteness is exactly that.

eh not that whiteness is the norm but that it is the "perceived norm", maybe "center" is really the better word

yeah definitely. i don't really get the issue, whiteness affects all "non-whiteness" in specific, massive infrastructural ways, and a term like "poc" is sort of necessary to address that. like a lot of things i think a lot of resistance to it is because it strikes people as new and tacky. especially if they mentally link it to tumblr. never underestimate perceived tackiness.

otoh a lot of people cling to "POC" when they're really just talking about one race. i've seen a lot of people use it when they're really only talking about black people, i guess bc people treat it as the "sensitive" term to use rather than a term with a specific purpose, and in that way it can be used to unintentionally whitewash things by failing to address specific issues that don't apply to all POC.

i don't get "people of ethnicity" doesn't everyone have ethnicity? i think i am a people of ethnicity. that seems built off of a misuse of the word. usually regarding cuisine. university "department of ethnicity"s make sense to me cause i've always interpreted that as being the sort of study of ethnicities in relation to each other, and it's difficult for an entire dept to study minority ethnicities without confronting majority ones.

Ethnicity makes all sort of sense in the Asian American context, "Asian" not being a 'race' in the same way that being 'white' or 'black' is, although people will often try to use it in that way

I imagine it is the same with the descriptor Latin@

oh god "department of ethnicity" what is wrong with me

I remember reading something (I think written by the woman who was so enamored of her cowboy boyfriend who treated her like shit?) about how Latino is an artificial construct designed by Europeans to erase the identities of indigenous Americans that was fascinating. Let me see if I can find it...

I imagine it is the same with the descriptor Latin@

― 龜, Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in my experience it much less about "ethnicity" w/ hispanics/latinos than nationality. most of us are mestizos anyway, we don't really belong to an "ethnic group" but we have origins in different nations. obviously there are very large indigenous populations esp. from mexico, peru, bolivia that you could categorize as "ethnic groups" and calling many of those purely indigenous peoples "hispanic" or "latino" makes zero fucking sense. but your average mestizo from the DR, guatemala, chile, argentina, etc. is going to identify primarily by their nation of origin, if they are american-born and second or third-generation. e.g. i am "peruvian" but i don't really think there are ethnic peruvians unless you are talking about indigenous groups, and with those you can name a specific group.

"is going to identify primarily by their nation of origin, *EVEN if they are american-born and second or third-generation."

xxp I was reminded of that tidbit yesterday when a La Raza spokesperson said on an MSNBC show that Latinos are in/from every racial group, including I think she said "indigenous" and it seemed a reasonable and obvious point. But back when I read that abusive cowboy writer's thing, it was a new idea to me that the Native (American) population didn't, like, STOP at the US-Mexico border and become a different group.

xp like a mestizo from the andes in peru is going to identify as "peruvian" while a mestizo from the andes in bolivia will identify as "bolivian" even though ethnically they are probably very similar. if they are emigrate to the US they are called "latino" but they will still identify as their nationality.

I mean when people are like, "Where did all the Indians go?" and they're talking about the "vanished" tribes of the Southwest, the answer is surely "South, following the rain and liveable habitats and trade routes and ending up in Central and South America, you idiot." But all my life the "disappearance" of the Pueblo population groups was literally presented in actually books as a MYSTERY. PERHAPS THEY WENT THROUGH THE KIVA HOLE BACK TO THE SPIRIT WORLD, like.

lol, otm. it's the same as the maya. in school we learned that the maya "mysteriously disappeared" but if you go to southern mexico and guatemala there are plenty of fucking maya there. yes there were severe population declines during the collapse of peak maya civilization and again during spanish conquest and subsequent diseases. but they are still there.

in my experience it much less about "ethnicity" w/ hispanics/latinos than nationality. most of us are mestizos anyway, we don't really belong to an "ethnic group" but we have origins in different nations. obviously there are very large indigenous populations esp. from mexico, peru, bolivia that you could categorize as "ethnic groups" and calling many of those purely indigenous peoples "hispanic" or "latino" makes zero fucking sense. but your average mestizo from the DR, guatemala, chile, argentina, etc. is going to identify primarily by their nation of origin, if they are american-born and second or third-generation. e.g. i am "peruvian" but i don't really think there are ethnic peruvians unless you are talking about indigenous groups, and with those you can name a specific group.

― marcos, Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:55 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark

Right - I was letting my own experience get in the way, since countries in Asia tend more to be mono-ethnic; 'nationality' is more accurate

i don't get "people of ethnicity" doesn't everyone have ethnicity?

doesn't everybody have a colouring

we've all seen Tilda Swinton

Seen through, you mean

Skin is an efficient scatterer of light unfortunately. Medical imaging would be much easier if absorption were the only issue.

Is this etsy Boston Terrier Day of the Dead Sugar Skull necklace questionable cultural appropriation???

https://img0.etsystatic.com/022/1/5470591/il_570xN.482972762_j4gt.jpg

I only had to read as far as the word "Boston" to know it was racist

ok, but this doesn't have anything to do with Boston

Feel like that is very standard day of the dead appropriation. No excuse but that is all over SoCal.

We have a music festival this summer with the theme "lost in Latin America" which features British ppl doing 'Mexican wrestling' and tonnes of Day Of The Dead iconography as 'fancy dress' but very, very little in the way of irl Latin American artists on the lineup.

http://www.standon-calling.com/line-up

The Cuban Brothers, Mayans, The Menendez Brothers and Venezuelan Alien have no direct connection to the region, afaict.

Wait, the Menendez brothers playing at music festivals now?

tbf every town has its white-kids-play-the-music-of-other-cultures-really-shittily band scene

I'm generally ok with that, tbh, as it generally indicates a level of engagement that goes beyond dress up and cultural stereotypes. If a bunch of kids in Rotherham want to form a calypso band, more power to them. The whole festival appearing to be themed around a cartoon version of Latin culture sits less well with me.

Could learn from http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jul/25/canadian-festival-bans-native-american-style-headdresses

that is awesome, hope coachella is paying attention

Wait, the Menendez brothers playing at music festivals now?

― ed.b

Haha. "We'd like to dedicate this next one to our parents, for making it all possible."

someone just wished me happy eid even though i am not a muslim! the nerve of some people!!!

j/k

Wish this would catch on elsewhere.

Was at a festival in HK in December and saw plenty of headdresses worn by European expats. I found that most European students I met just didn't "get it" and fet that N. America was overly sensitive about contemporary forms of racism.

http://f1.bcbits.com/img/a3662428547_10.jpg

We've finally moved on from "I'm big in Japan"

wtf is that even

something that needs a NSFW flag for those of us with images off

This isn't a very well-written article but the comments say so much about white pushback at any suggestion that anything white people do short of blackface (and maybe not even that) is even a teensy bit racist.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/04/katy-perry-avril-lavigne-pop-culture-peddling-racism?CMP=twt_gu&commentpage=1

Was at a festival in HK in December and saw plenty of headdresses worn by European expats. I found that most European students I met just didn't "get it" and fet that N. America was overly sensitive about contemporary forms of racism.

― Eggs and the marketing board behind them, Monday, July 28, 2014 3:23 PM (1 week ago)

something might be said about the difference between that sort of appropriation by white americans and by, well ... by anyone else. i have the sense that a great many people don't see cultural appropriation as a terribly offensive thing in itself, in isolation, lederhosen donned by non bavarians or whatever. appropriated by whom and to what end is where things get sticky. we object most passionately when the privileged cruelly mock or thoughtlessly adopt the identity of those they oppress; therefore white americans in blackface, native american ceremonial garb, etc. europeans might understandably see themselves as operating at a substantial remove from all that.

^ maybe replace that "understandably" w/ "rightly or wrongly", perspective involved, chains of responsibilty

huh that's a read on that divide that had never occurred to me. thoughtful.

I would usually put this in the Race '14 thread since there's no question about this one, but it's germane to the conversation, I guess.

You'll have to excuse me though, I can't ever remember if it's the Mirror or the Mail that's always taking the piss.

A mayonnaise factory manager has quit his job – to live as a NATIVE AMERICAN.

He might not quite be sitting bull, but Les Atkins is going to follow his dreams and tour the country teaching people about the Native American way of life.

The 65-year-old from Walsall, West Midlands retired from his job on July 31 after 15 years of service - but now plans to spend his days dressed as his alter-ego Native American.

I won't repost the pix, but you can find them at the link.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mayonnaise-factory-manager-gives-up-3986921

That Low Country Kingdom thing is fascinating

'White, military people have crashed (?) and now are underwater (but also in a burning city) surrounded by dangerous but admiring non-white mermaids, the white men maintain their composure'

Seems to have nothing to do with China though?

sketchfactor "has a reporting mechanism for racial profiling," so it's got that going for it.

I downloaded Sketchfactor and 99% of the entries are trolling, and some are really funny

Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors [Started by Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose) in September 2003, last updated 51 seconds ago by Jazzbo on I Love Music] 6 new answers

what do u think of the word 'jazzbo'

2 US archaic A person, especially a black man.

Here are names of some toys that will make many reader squinch: Jazzbo Jim, Tombo Alabama Coon Jigger, Ham and Sam, and Somstepa Coon Jigger. They certainly don't represent the finest hour of American manufacturing history.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-05-05/features/1991125223_1_black-memorabilia-jigger-jazzbo

I had never heard that meaning of jazzbo before! Had always taken it to mean geeks with sick chops.

note that it doesnt say it is derogatory in itself, just that any 'neutral' word for 'a person, especially a black man' in early 20th c america will inevitably carry the value inferences of its age

I always thought jazzbo was a beatnik term--like a white dude grooving to a Charlie Parker set