what do you think of Jon Savage?

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Are Savage's ideas about punk music's greatness being contained in its "other"ness rockist?

― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link

In response to comments on Please Kill Me: Yes everyone in it was totally self obsessed, even LaMonte Young's tiny quote, the book slowed to a halt every time Patti Smith talked or anybody talk about Patti Smith who is a vacuum of boredom, and Leggs McNeil should not have inserted himself and his friends into the book, and it's bullshit that they talk about the fucking Doors but not the Talking Heads, but it's totally worth reading to hear about all of the absolutely fucking batshit crazy times a million things Iggy Pop has done over the years.

― Comma comma comma comunist, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:54 (eighteen years ago) link

― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I've always really liked that Savage is open about the fact that his own emotional response is his #1 criteria for music.

― öROXYMUZAKö (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I just reread 'England's Dreaming' and was amazed, again, at his natural and uncontrived skill at situating the reader in a social and political context by describing the streets of the town, what was on the TV, what was in the media, what people were wearing and thinking, the temperature and climate, etc. He is a great painter of backgrounds to action, and a great writer in general really.

― ratty, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:37 (eighteen years ago) link

God yes, in that regard he is the non-boring Victor Hugo of popcrit.

― „©ROXYMUZAK„© (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:11 (eighteen years ago) link

is this the same guy who did all the liner notes for the Throbbing Gristle cds? i like those.

― HAKKEBOFFER (eman), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:18 (eighteen years ago) link

i wish he'd write another book! anyone have any idea what he's working on now?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I vastly enjoyed England's Dreaming and the Joy Division notes. What was that thing called VAGUE in the 80s? Was it a magazine or a book? I think he was involved in that.

― xero (xero), Thursday, 19 January 2006 04:45 (eighteen years ago) link

he's done a (reputedly huge) book on 'teenage' for faber, j.d.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Vague was a fanzine, run by a fellow called Tom Vague. I believe it started as a local fanzine on the South Coast, with a distinct Adam & the Ants leaning, and developed into a key pro-situ publication through the 80s which was particularly obsessed with psychogeography and the North Kensington area. TV would likely prefer the appelation "Ladbroke Grove". The Savage involvement, as far as I'm aware, was a lengthy interview around the time of "England's Dreaming", and maybe some pre-ED outtakes and preview snippets?

Any Vagues are worth picking up and reading if you can find them, I particulatly love "The West Eleven Days of my Life".

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:43 (eighteen years ago) link

vague had something to do with/republished [?] 'heatwave', chris gray's short-lived "situationist" u/g mag about 1966, i think. obv savage likey the situationists.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Savage was also involved with a very short-lived mag at the start of the 90s called, hilariously, VAGABOND. I think there were maybe two issues.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:03 (eighteen years ago) link

actually the hac book is not as rare as i thought.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh holy shit, thanks Theorry. After hearing it was so rare I didn't even bother to search for it. Excitement!

Also: the book Teenage that he's working on is supposedly about youth culture from the turn of the century? Haven't really heard a lot about it.

Surely this could be better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Savage

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link

i hadn't heard of 'meridian 1970'.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, me either. Surely he wrote something to go along with that? I can't see Savage just compiling a cd.

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

He used to make little fantasy compilations for Mojo and write about them - mostly UK psych at the end of the 60s and turn of the 70s, at any rate there seemed to be endless write-ups by him of that period, they were generally pretty interesting. I guess Meridian 70 is him actually getting to do a real comp of all this stuff.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Neat!

Hey, apparently that Haçienda Must Be Built book even has a Fac number!

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know why I said "even", it's not like it's some kind of stamp of legitimacy.

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

There is a longish piece by Jon Savage entitled "The Sound of the Crowd" in a book called Stars Don't Stand Still In The Sky: Music and Myth (1999, ed. Evelyn McDonnell & Karen Kelly). I haven't read it yet.

Vague back issues, and the anthology The Great British Mistake: Vague 1977-92 (Savage interview included), are available from AK Press, it looks like.

― xero (xero), Friday, 20 January 2006 02:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Savage also did the liner notes for 100 Flowers Bloom, the 1998 Gang of Four anthology CD. The text is online somewhere and well worth reading, though it's very unlike the Joy Division one, and much shorter.

― xero (xero), Friday, 20 January 2006 02:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't like Meridian 70 much, sadly.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 January 2006 06:51 (eighteen years ago) link

roxy, do you have the England's Dreaming comp on Trikont? worth getting.

also looking fwd to the gay-pop-thru-the-ages comp he's putting together for this year, also on Trikont

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 January 2006 06:52 (eighteen years ago) link

No I don't. I was wondering if it was worth it or not.

That comp thing sounds fantastic!

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 20 January 2006 20:51 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...

Has any more information surfaced on this gay pop compilation? There's no mention on the Trikont website.

― Telephonething (Telephonething), Sunday, 7 May 2006 00:30 (eighteen years ago) link

http://trikont.com/catalogue/349_queer_noises/349_queer_noises.html

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 7 May 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link

also, Americans, Trikont is now being distro'ed by Seattle indie Light in the Attic, meaning it'll be easier to find in stores. this should be something.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 7 May 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

four months pass...

nice! i'm sad that i missed this thread being bumped :(

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link

meanwhile, this here ilx'tonian has finally read england's dreaming and loved it greatly :)

― tiit (tiit), Sunday, 17 September 2006 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link

'tis a great book. one of my favorites.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 17 September 2006 10:21 (seventeen years ago) link

i store it on top of my bible

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 September 2006 03:48 (seventeen years ago) link

amazon has his teenage book at next may. at one point it was for late '05.

― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Thursday, 21 September 2006 08:10 (seventeen years ago) link

wuddya'kno. time flies, as apparently does savage.

― tiit (tiit), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

can't wait til preorder

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link

england's dreaming was amazing.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:16 (seventeen years ago) link

ooooohhhh I am excited

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 21 September 2006 21:19 (seventeen years ago) link

one of my fav writers. should i bother tracking down his kinks book? i remember my high school library had a copy, but i didn't read it then and it's the only one i've ever seen. :(

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link

"JON SAVAGE!! JON SAVAGE!!
ANYTHING GOES WHEN NO-ONE KNOWS YOUR NAAAAAAAME!!"

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 22 September 2006 08:16 (seventeen years ago) link

His Kinks book is great!

Also:

http://69.93.254.120/G/storage/site1/files/24/51/42/245142_76323876e8d154tarctm06.jpg

one year passes...

Has anyone here read "Teenage" yet ?

― Hedgerows, Monday, 14 January 2008 16:33 (sixteen years ago) link

no. i was like huh? i thought it was going to be about postwar teenagers. or, the invention of the teenager i guess. but it's a prehistory. is he doing another volume?

― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 14 January 2008 17:39 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't know. Not sure how music oriented it is in any event. Just wondered whether anyone had road tested it. He is a writer I do like but am not sure about this one.

― Hedgerows, Monday, 14 January 2008 17:48 (sixteen years ago) link

Great source of info on Joy Divison but I can't stand reading this liner notes on the Joy Division releases, especially the Collector's editions the past few months. I even can stand Morley's big ol' essay on the Heart And Soul box set more than Savage's, which is saying a lot. (Not that I don't enjoy some Morley pieces, but THAT one was a doozy.)

― Mackro Mackro, Monday, 14 January 2008 18:06 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

His Kinks book is great!

Also:

this is good to know. iirc quondam ilxor mark s said he had the hell of a time writing it, and i was unsure whether the book was not good as a result of this.

― display name fatigue (special guest stars mark bronson), Monday, 2 February 2009 20:40 (fifteen years ago) link

three months pass...

back to the well: the england's dreaming tapes

― juniper jazz (haitch), Monday, 4 May 2009 02:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Isn't Simon Reynolds doing something similar with the Rip It Up tapes?

― Alex in NYC, Monday, 4 May 2009 12:14 (fifteen years ago) link

has done so already!

― juniper jazz (haitch), Monday, 4 May 2009 12:17 (fifteen years ago) link

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know this was available.

I just read England's Dreaming cover to cover again last month. It was good at 15, 25, and now 32. I appreciate that book more and more each time I read it. I am looking forward to 700+ pages of the source material.

― Your original display name will be displayed in brackets (Display Name), Monday, 4 May 2009 15:13 (fifteen years ago) link

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