In Which Doctor Casino Listens to Classic Rock Classics for the First Time

Where is the chart that you use?

someone who had access to airplay data threw me some files a few years ago

"Still...You Turn Me On" gets deep cut play as well.

I hear this "Karn Evil 9" thing lots on the radio. Honestly, I can think of few bands as internally divisive as ELP, whom I have never really listened to or liked but only hate off and on, albeit in the same listen. It's like every other minute I want to hear more, then less, then I like it, then I never want to hear it again, etc. I like prog, but I've never so much as downloaded an ELP track.

ELP are pretty great from the debut up through the triple(!) live album. I wrote about their catalog when it was reissued in 2008.

I like Josh in Chicago's description, good to know I'm not the only one. Oddly, now that I've been away from "Karn Evil 9" for a few hours I'm kinda game to give it another spin. There were all these flashes of interest.

This also does make Attila make a little more sense as part of some larger context.

wow, i love that you made that connection. that does make a lot of sense, though it's perhaps worth noting that attila's only album came out three years before this, and elp's first album (brain salad surgery was their fourth) came out shortly after the attila album. attila are no doubt more formalist, channeling their organ psychedelia through classical ambitions on one hand and folky ambitions on the other. or something like that.

Yeah, um, hrm. Is this a staple on radios somewhere? Is the whole record like this, or are they pouring on the "freak-out" for the opening track

my memory of brain salad surgery -- owned in my house by my older brother -- is that the full "karn evil" suite was a very long freak-out, in sections, while the rest of the album veered between classical freak-out ("toccata") and folk freak-out ("still you turn me on"), with a fold-out h.r. giger freak-out for an album cover. this is neither recommendation nor criticism; just me trying to re-create a childhood memory, really.

Lake's "I Believe in Father Christmas" (which is awesome)

one of my favorite christmas songs when i was growing up!

attila are no doubt more formalist[

ugh, something got cut there. should say "attila are no doubt more primal and elp more formalist, channeling their organ psychedelia through..."

haha there is no ILX rock thread that I cannot, some day, steer towards Attila. Holy Moses! It's not that it's such a good record, it's just that it has such an oddball sound, but it's great to start drawing a more complete map for myself of late 60s/early 70s rock band ambitions and sonic moves, to where I can sorta see where someone would arrive at that and go "Oh, yeah, this is going to be huge."

ELP's covers seem great to me. The name is awful though - were these guys remotely known by their last names before this? Was it supposed to convey "these titans have teamed up at last," or more "we're artists, above the silly names of other 'bands'; let us be named in the way of such great composers as Rodgers and Hammerstein"...?

all three for sure

Emerson had been a leading member of the Nice and Lake had been the frontman for King Crimson. Not sure if that made them titans. I never really thought about the band name, though; I guess it never struck me as a pretentious move for a band to just go by their actual names.

and presumably "keith, greg and carl" would have sounded way too poppy, a la peter, paul & mary or dino, desi & billy. first names connote slumber parties, first crushes and 45-rpm singles. last names connote gravity, grown-ups and albums.

speaking of last names...

the allman brothers never released "midnight rider" as a single, but gregg allman did three years later, and his version went to #19 on the u.s. pop chart. but the band had the last laugh. the allmans' original became a rock staple and -- more important -- landed #76 on the ilm classic rock poll.

SONG #25: THE ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND "MIDNIGHT RIDER"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBf48xUIBLo

i'm trying, and failing, to think of another song that was originally recorded by a band but became a bigger hit when a member of the band put it on his solo album -- without leaving the band. i can think of plenty of examples of solo artists having hits with songs by their former bands, but not any other examples of solo artists having hits with songs by their current bands.

Congratulations on getting the Karnival pun. That didn't hit me until about three years into my radio career.

Our talk rival across town was KARN, so I was always heh, heh, they are evil aren't they, amirite?

Joe Walsh's "In the City" almost qualifies.

xp

xpost Your Voice piece hints at a problem I've had with a lot of prog: it's not progressive, it's regressive, cribbing more from classical and folk and not doing much with it other than stringing them together into suites connected by virtuoso drumming. That's why I've always loved Crimson, who seem to be doing something new and different with its noise. I love Genesis too, because I like the songwriting. But a band like Yes has always, to my ears, straddled songwriting with showing off, which is to say, chops for the sake of chops, which is what I almost exclusively get from ELP, whose chops I've never really appreciated, esp. compared to bands with *real* chops (see: Mahavishnu Orchestra).

It would be great to hear these ridiculous keyboard theatrics coming from "Keith, Greg and Carl," especially if it was a record company scam to try and attract fans of bubblegum act "Keith" (born James Barry Keefer) who'd scored big with "98.6." For more on the Keith who did "98.6," see... http://www.keith986.com/ or check him out on Spotify, where his catalog is mixed up with a bunch of other Keiths and his album Out of Crank is mislabeled "Out of Krank." Poor Keith. (Sorry, this thread: I've fallen down the Keith-hole and am currently jamming to his psychedelic turn on The Adventures of Keith - some pretty searing guitar popping up halfway through gentle lullaby "Melody.")

Actually, this would have been a great route for Emerson, Lake and Palmer: recruit Keith, Greg Allmann, and Carl Wilson, let them trade rhymes over a bedrock of organ and synth wizardry. Just needs a solid record-company hack to hassle them in the studio: I'm not hearing a single, baby! Get to the hook or you're back out on the street!

I guess it's not really inherently pretentious to use your last names as identifiers - I just think in the context of a rock band shooting for Greater Things it implies that they are already up there with Beethoven or something, or at least that this is some long-anticipated ultra team, the biggest names you could imagine, like it's Superman & Spider-Man teaming up. I guess there are tons of acts where that's not the case, but at this point, the precedents would have pretty much been Simon & Garfunkel (we are poet troubadours in no need of a lowly rock band name) and CSNY (supergroup). I should get over it though.

Joe Walsh's "In the City" almost qualifies.

that was kind of the opposite, no? originally recorded by the solo artist, and then recorded and made more popular by his band?

(toby) keith, gregg (allman) and (hayes) carll could be a pretty bubblegum country supergroup.

pretty good, that is. maybe.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, Cubs Outfielder Junior Lake and Robert Palmer.

Would top charts.

i'm trying, and failing, to think of another song that was originally recorded by a band but became a bigger hit when a member of the band put it on his solo album -- without leaving the band. i can think of plenty of examples of solo artists having hits with songs by their former bands, but not any other examples of solo artists having hits with songs by their current bands.

Wasn't Dave Mason's version of Feelin' Alright a bigger hit than Traffic's version of same?

wait strike that for obvious reasons

he recorded it but only Joe Cocker's take charted, which is the one I was thinking of.

So wait, Allman Bros version of Midnight Rider was more popular than Greg Allman version, right?

But Greg's charted higher, ok.

(xp) according to classic rock radio and the winds of time, yeah, the allman bros version wins, i think. but according to the billboard pop chart, the allman bros version doesn't exist and gregg allman's version was a top-20 hit.

Okay, there's lil' Zipper again...

Loved this part of the review so much I'm borrwing it for a while.

Allmans version is way better than Greg n Strings, but Buddy Miles' take is severely underrated.

Gah, there's gotta be a bunch of those out there.

Thought I had one with "Hickory Wind", but that was never released as a single by the Byrds or Parsons!

Midnight Rider: Nice start. Nice feel. Warm, cozy classic rock in the Woodstock vein. Dig the throaty singalong thing. We're all around the campfire here. The way the guitar leads and organ come in subtly on the "silver dollar" part makes them almost feel like sad wordless backing vocals - this feels very mid/late 60s in a way that I like. It also all feels very friendly for a song about a guy who's on the run and trying not to get caught. It's maybe a little mournful, but not urgent (urgent). That's okay though - it's like the rider is pausing at a stranger's campfire, sharing some stew and letting his guard down (just a little) while the coyotes howl in the distance somewhere. I realize this is the wrong imagery for a southern band - I guess sub in the guy from "Everglades" with the slimy bog, skeeters and gators, etc. And, woah, uh, oops, ran out of tape, huh guys?

Yikes, that was one of the most abrupt fades we've had here. Makes me inclined to hear the song more as a fragment they're jamming on, a riff and a hook and some vague ideas for the story, than a fully-worked-out thing - at some point they kinda ran out of material and jammed for a little more before giving up for the night.

Second listen, with more of an eye on the lyrics (but still bobbing along). For a second thought he was saying "and the rum goes on forever," which shifts the geography yet again - this album dates from the band's "pirate" phase, from which they later distanced themselves. "That was a marketing stunt, something Roger (Hart) forced on us, which we did not like to say the least!" Gregg Allman explained in 1992. As I kinda thought, the lyrics are underwritten but the song's fine... this is about the riff, "one morrrre silver dollar," "not gonna let 'em catch me, no," and the instrumental break. I wouldn't change a thing about the arrangement, just think it could use a bridge and some better verses, hint at a little more of a story so that the rider's tale connects emotionally. Why's he riding again, who's trying to catch him? Usually in this kinda thing he's running from the law, or the love interest's father, or maybe other outlaws (he's going good, or just going it alone). The bridge could introduce some mixed feelings about riding, things he knows he's leaving behind - thinking of Paul Simon's "God Bless the Absentee" off the top of my head though obv that's a pretty different song - or sell his disdain for the stationary life that he can't have anyway. Right now he could be just trying to ditch on a parking ticket for all I know.

But I shouldn't ghostwrite too much here - overall this is a thumbs up, and I'm glad to add this one to my playlists.

otm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRYOAzS6sA

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=57395

I promise, I was not going to even bring up anything so self-serving, but gr8080's kinda forcing my hand here.

wait, is that you, pplains? hilarious, and completely appropriate here.

He's been saying for years that that wasn't him.

Loved this part of the review so much I'm borrwing it for a while.

― Okay, there's lil' Zipper again (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:29 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yessssssssssss

I worked the knobs on it, yes.

i'm trying, and failing, to think of another song that was originally recorded by a band but became a bigger hit when a member of the band put it on his solo album -- without leaving the band

Not that either version was released as a single or could remotely be called a hit, but I'm thinking the Phil Collins remake of "Behind the Lines" from Face Value got more airplay on NYC's WNEW-FM than the Genesis original from Duke

don't think i know that phil collins/genesis song, but that would do it if phil's version had any hit-like qualities.

in honor of gene simmons becoming the first human to shout it out loud in support of donald sterling (while still, to be fair, calling the la clippers owner "heinous"):

SONG #26: KISS "SHOUT IT OUT LOUD"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16cEJ-CBejA

Love this track so much - Stanley's vocal, the guitar interplay, the Motown drums, the handclaps, the piano (?). Great record.

y'know, i grew up hearing far more Eric Clapton than I care to remember but i really barely know a lot of his stuff that ended up placing in the middle section of the poll's top 500 -- "Badge" and "Can't Find My Way Home" don't ring a bell at all and i mostly know "Bell Bottom Blues" from the 24 Nights live album my mom used to play incessantly.

don't think i know that phil collins/genesis song, but that would do it if phil's version had any hit-like qualities

Phil's version is hit-like in all but having been a hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazN1zHRbAc

I love the syncopation on the Collins version.

Before I finally turn to Kiss (sorry, y'all, been writing about Brutalist telephone architecture for the last few days and trying to curb my ILXing), I'm taking a quick listen to the Gregg Allman "Midnight Rider" - wow, really different sound here. A little less woolly, almost vaguely funky, but generally kinda smoother and fuller. I don't think it lands the chorus quite as well but the groove is fine. The (kinda Doors-y) organ and the string section just don't lend itself to the idea that we're really getting a snapshot from the road...holy cow, a horn chart too? We're in Madman Across the Water territory here - but I like Elton's weird, layered studio take on Americana just fine so I should take it from Gregg here too. I can see why the band version has become the staple even if this charted better at the time; it doesn't really solve any of the problems of the other one, and it adds a lot of stuff that probably started to feel a little dated or just superfluous. Don't mind it, but the other one can comfortably lead in and out of anything in your early 70s rock playlist. Also the way this drags out at the end is almost sillier than the sudden knob-twist from the Brothers.

Couldn't handle the audio on the Waylon Jennings live clip, but listening to the studio version it's preeeeeetty cool! One for that trippy 70s country-pop thread. Feels a little too 'fast' for the amount of detail in the mix, it's bumpin' but I can imagine it really drawing you into the haze with a more sluggish delivery. Man, nobody can find an ending to this song - but I like his approach of just stopping, even if it again weakens the idea of an endless roaming ride.

As for R. Mantlebakken, <3. Making me want to crack back open my perpetually unfinished Girl Talk ripoff project of many years and do an all-classic-rock cut or two. The "I'm gettin' down on the weekends" part in particular rocks.