OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY: nu-Who season 8

I would love it if they ditched Clara for a elderly lady companion like Evelyn Miles and turned it into one of those British old people mystery shows. I guess that would totally alienate about 2/3rds of the viewership though.

And Clara is boring as ever

Huh, I thought Clara was way way better than she ever has been before in this episode.

yeah I noticed I disliked her far less than I had previously. So hope she continues to improve.
I'm still trying to remember what that characteristic i that I read breeders breed into pets that makes them look far more like their immature/baby/puppy version than the mature version originally did. Cos I wanted to use it to describe the version of her that was in the last Matt Smith series, all overlarge eyes and all. she looks like she belongs in a 70s Japanese cartoon like Marine Boy or something.

Hey have you ever seen Frobisher and the Doctor in the same room at the same time?? *nods sagely*

I'm still trying to remember what that characteristic i that I read breeders breed into pets that makes them look far more like their immature/baby/puppy version than the mature version originally did.

Neoteny.

THanks for that. I think I came across a short article on the neotenic effect somewhere a bit before Carla turned up and she's reminded me of it ever since.

Enjoyed that quite a bit, but Capaldi is doing so much of the heavy lifting he must look like fucking Popeye with his shirt off.

Can't help thinking the name the Doctor chose for the Dalek wasn't a coincidence, and every time he used it it sounded like he was calling the Dalek a cunt. Or maybe that's just me.

Yeah, there's no way that was a coincidence.

I felt like there wasn't much tension, but Dr Who does dark Inner Space worked for me.

yeah. the strong points of this were slightly strange - and tension wasn't a strong point.

pictorial overlays of the doctor standing in front of a giant dalek eye while the universe was consumed and born in fire.

hallucinogenic warping of body shape as they went into the eye.

dalek stands in judgment of doctor.

doctor goodbye = muttering to himself as he slips out of the door (like the bit were he crept away furtively, with an expression almost of cowardice, from the soldier being attacked by the antibodies.)

aldo's point about the heavy lifting dead on tho. capaldi almost knocking out the balance of the show.

the laser guns were about as meaningfully effective in terms of excitement as they were in terms of killing daleks.

I thought this was okay, but it felt like a retread of "Dalek" from the first reason, right down to the Doctor's own morality being questioned. Didn't the Dalek in that episode also say "you're a good Dalek" to Eccleston?

A lot of things in this ep just didn't make sense to me... Like, why did they go inside Rusty in the first place? To determine how it became "good"? Couldn't they have just scanned its memory or something? The Doctor seems to know how dangerous it is inside, yet he's a-okay with this plan that might get them all killed? Why do the soldiers, who seem otherwise quite sensible and cautious, even suggest the plan in the first place? What do they even stand to gain to it? Okay, later on the Doctor says that maybe he can make all Daleks good, but that justification was only given after the fact.

Also, the Rusty just handily destroying all the other Daleks without them managing to fire a single shot at it felt way too convenient. And what's up with the Doctor's weird anti-soldier stance w/r/t refusing to take Journey with them? He's okay with hanging out with Rory the killer automaton, River the genetically engineered assassin, and Vastra the human-eating vigilante, but this seemingly decent person being a soldier is too much for him? I don't get it. Journey even proved she's not just following orders blindly, if that's what the Doctor is against, when she didn't blow them all up inside the Dalek.

really enjoyed that v much. emil.y & fizzles otm, basically everything that was consciousness-raising/warping acid trip inside analogue dalek body/mind was a++++. Hoping for a series full of stoner ethics chat + cool stuff to look at. And yeah, Capaldi hauling everything to the next level.

xp

yeah there were big holes in it I think. Is it setting up a DOCTOR/TEACHER/SOLDIER thing that'll run through? That's what it felt like. But internal plot-logic a bit frayed tbh.

They were definitely juxtaposing Danny Pink with the soldiers of the future. In the beginning of the ep Clara dismisses his soldier career almost as cruelly as Doctor does with Journey, but in the end she has learned her lesson (probably by watching that one soldier sacrificer herself for the rest of them), while the Doctor still hasn't.

Even though this time around they're emphasising that the Doctor is the same person, each Doctor does have a different set of personality traits, so I'm not sure I'd counterpoint the soldier-rejection now with previous companions.

I guess I could've accepted it if, you know, they'd given some explanation for why the Doctor doesn't like soldiers in particular. But they didn't.

Agreed that this felt way too close to the Ecclestone Dalek ep. Wasn't that one also the second after the introduction? It must be a contract obligation thing with Nation, right? Maybe they're just getting it out of the way early.

I'm watching how they're handling The Colin Baker Problem, which is that when they introduce an intentionally abrasive doctor to create contrast, they end up alienating the audience. I'm liking the moments of vulnerability ('please see me'/'am I a good man') but they seem unearned and come out of nowhere. (Capaldi is borrowing some of Tom Baker's jauntiness to relieve the tension but he's still closer to Colin or McCoy, I'm thinking, maybe.)

Capaldi's delivery for just about anything especially the Clara-baiting banter is hilarious ('well you don't look it! ... that's right, keep your spirits up')

The soldier theme is interesting, he's always had contempt for functionaries, bureaucrats, military types, we used to see this a lot with Tennant and going all the way back to Troughton - but they're really trying to make it A Thing, I don't think it's just a one-off for this ep. I'm not sure exactly where they're going with it. Agreed with Tuomas that this is not really convincing at the moment but if it's a themed arc maybe it'll congeal.

Nope, not the second ep, the sixth. Set in the futuristic year of 2012

I was lukewarm in this at first but I got well into it once it got going

The soul-mindmeld & reviving the memories was pretty good, def Ecclestonian as noted upthread but I don't think it stepped on that episode THAT much, did it? idk, my memory is shit so i am prob wrong (cue
"sic-ipedia" with detailed notes lol)

Capaldi bringing good grouchy intensity! honestly I get a little bit of Hartnell from him, ie there's no TIME for niceties ughhh grump grump

I guess I could've accepted it if, you know, they'd given some explanation for why the Doctor doesn't like soldiers in particular. But they didn't.

soldier rejection a rejection of himself (hence it's slightly willed and stubborn aspect) because if I'm remembering rightly Matt Smith was often described by others as a soldier (even as far back as the Tennant/Moffat Library double ep). fits in with a lot of the "I will not be that man again" existential stuff capaldi is going thru.

like emil.y I have no prob with this.

also war doctor was basically a soldier, no?

I thought the rejection of Journey Blue (or is it vice versa?)as a soldier might be a pelude to that actress returning as a non-soldier, maybe an alternative world version of the same character or something. But that might be rendered unlikely if Clara has already used that alternative selfs dispersed across time thing.

I wonder if that actress would make a good companion. I've enjoyed her in other things.

soldier rejection a rejection of himself (hence it's slightly willed and stubborn aspect) because if I'm remembering rightly Matt Smith was often described by others as a soldier (even as far back as the Tennant/Moffat Library double ep). fits in with a lot of the "I will not be that man again" existential stuff capaldi is going thru.

yeah I agree with this. They played with this idea a lot with 11 - "A Good Man Goes to War", the whole Doctor/Nurse/Soldier thing with Rory/Strax, the war doctor.

Looks like they've taken the criticisms about Clara's character being underdeveloped to heart - I like the renewed focus on her life on Earth, even if it does feel like they're overcompensating a bit.

I recognised the similarity with Ecclestone's 'Dalek' (though technically this still wasn't a good dalek so that isn't soooo much of an issue, still a little off, though), but also was going hey! Clara's already been inside a dalek - I mean, fair enough that she wouldn't know, as it wasn't actually Clara, but the Doctor doesn't remember that?

I wondered about that too - thought there would be a mention about how the last time he met a good Dalek, it turned out to be Clara. I still wish he had taken the Dalek Souffle version of her as a companion tbh.

I enjoyed that one a lot, the Dalek antibodies were my favourite bit. Capaldi really is excellent, given that Ecclestone was up til now my favourite nu-Who Doctor, I think I just like him to have a bit of gravitas.

Suspect that the Doctor isn't going to take to Clara's new boyfriend particularly well, but I'm enjoying the moral ambiguities at play here.

I also like it when the Doctor's a bit of a dick and Capaldi is extremely good at being a dick.

The main plot felt a bit rushed and slightly nonsensical in places, but enjoyed it overall. Capaldi's shaping up very nicely, particularly liked him getting Vod off Fresh Meat to say 'please', and his rudely abrupt farewell. I really enjoyed the Clara and Danny stuff - nicely written and well-paced.

I'm watching how they're handling The Colin Baker Problem, which is that when they introduce an intentionally abrasive doctor to create contrast, they end up alienating the audience.

Hopefully they will simply avoid this by Capaldi being a better actor and having better writers.

but also was going hey! Clara's already been inside a dalek - I mean, fair enough that she wouldn't know, as it wasn't actually Clara, but the Doctor doesn't remember that?

http://media.aintitcool.com/coolproduction/ckeditor_assets/pictures/5252/original/doclek.png?1327684145

I haven't heard how this series is shaped yet. Is it back to a straight 12 consecutive week series? Matt Smiths last ones messed around with that didn't they? Called it series 7 but had a several month interval or something

Should be 12 eps, straight through

Hopefully they will simply avoid this by Capaldi being a better actor and having better writers.

Ha too right (but I enjoy thinking about this from a writer/producers POV)

no breaks, x-mas special, and clara leaves, apparently, during the special.

THE DEBIGULATOR WORKED!

(and the rebigulator too obv)

no breaks, x-mas special, and clara leaves, apparently, during the special.

stfu

Man i wanna like this so badly, but its pretty dumb unfortunately.
Rewatched the first two seasons of the thick of it tonight instead

what's dumb?

Has a companion ever slapped the Doctor before?

shd do story were doctor who turns bad

This started out as the best nu-Who Dalek episode, low bar I know. It did descend into a pretty typical Dalek episode with lots of explosions, but at least they kept the cgi swarms of dalekss down to a minimum. Capaldi is working out well, I hope they can maintain the unpredictability.

This started out as the best nu-Who Dalek episode

Nah, this is clearly 'Dalek', pretty unimpeachably so.

Yeah, I agree, though the Dalek-Clara ep was pretty good though. I'm only familiar with the nu-Who, so I've no emotional attachment to the Daleks, and most of the episodes featuring them have been pretty meh. I think the basic concept of the Dalkes is pretty cool and can be properly terrifying (as seen in "Dalek", where one single Dalek was enough to make everyone piss their pants), but they keep adding all this extra elements to them that just aren't that interesting. I'm not interested in some goofy-looking Human/Dalek hybrids, or some pathetic old geezer in a wheelchair who created them, these things just take away from the simple existential horror of the core Dalek concept. Maybe the writers think that old-Who fans need this extra shit, because the basic Dalek stories have already been told, but I'd choose the simplicity of "Dalek" over the ludicrousness of "Daleks Take Manhattan" anytime.

I like davros! Basically the only Dalek stories since the first one to do anything particularly interesting with them are 'genesis' and 'dalek', maybe 'rememberence', though it's been a long time since I've seen that one. They're better as a general ongoing background threat than they are as villain of the week.

Oh I think 'power of the daleks' has a very good rep, but I can't be bothered to sit through audio-only lost serials.

some pathetic old geezer in a wheelchair who created them

Said pathetic old geezer has been part of the series since 1975, in fact in all the dalek stories after he was introduced until 'Dalek'. And had his own series of BF.

It's interesting that you think Dalek is the modern one, because it was adapted from a BF audio which is surely the very textbook definition of "old-Who fans extra shit". Rusty in particular has made clear all the extra bits need added on because it's what TV is supposed to look like these days (post-Buffy). HOOT!

I'm also not sure what exactly you think the core dalek concept is.

Personally, I like to think of them as conscripts - forced into the suit and with vision and weapons grafted on (possibly giving them an electric shock when they use them), they're in a permanent state of panic which is why they're always shouting (and why they join chants with each other) and also why they get into extreme states when their vision is impaired; this has caused them to die of fright in the past.

That's an interesting if idiosyncratic take on the Daleks! I thought the core concept was they're horrible and they want to kill everything.

I wouldn't say it's that strange a take on daleks - they are vulnerable organic creatures inside the metallic killing machines, and they are creations of a mad dictator (I'd say this is a reasonable characterisation of Davros), which means they're not necessarily evil but contingently so. This clearly has symbolic power over and above "unstoppable and unmitigated evil".

Oh I'm down with Aldo's interperatation, just hadn't really occurred to me.

No, they were an attempt to break the deadlock in the thousand year war against the Thals by creating a battle suit which would not tire. The Kaleds were then mutated to fit the suit and to take all sustenance required from it. It was established in Remembrance (? might have been Revelation) that the two dalek faction are completely different types of mutants - one is the green jelly seen in Resurrection and one is the crab-clawed thing seen in The Daleks.

It could be argued (but I haven't thought it through to closely, because I've only just come up with it) that the Daleks would never have been such ruthless killers and had such a bent for galactic conquest had the Fourth Doctor not made his 'bacteria' speech and given Davros the idea to destroy the galaxy.

You'd think Doctor Ten and his guilty feet could have had a two-parter moping about how he did that back when he had curly hair. Frankly, Rusty could have got a whole spin-off series out of it.