OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY: nu-Who season 8

banging head on desk scene made me think that moffatt was trying to revisit Coupling and Chalk simultaneously.

"is ross in here?"
"top layer if you want to say a few words"

Good grief that was a massive improvement on last week's episode, maybe even the whole last series. Better story, performances, direction - even Clara struggling with a bunch of plastic corrugated tubes wasn't the risible moment it could have been.

It was clunky but I liked the whole soldier/doctor good/bad themewankery. And Capaldi finally did something that made me think, "Yep, Matt Smith couldn't do that."

Also, Vod is such a natural fit for a companion, I hope she comes back.

"finally"?

be awesome, you mean?

I thought he was a bit boring in the debut episode. A bit too much "me crazy" acting - like Matt Smith in Nightmare in Silver. But he was great this week. And it seemed like he had a specific idea about the character, rather than a random grab bag of "this could work" business

Before Capaldi was announced, Zawe Ashton won the poll the Guardian did for 'new/first female Doctor'.

See, dalek conversation here is interesting because as far as I can tell they could be contingently evil or inherently evil, and you never quite know

I thought this was a really good episode with science fiction elements played just seriously enough to do what they needed to do, make a tense story that worked

First episode was crap, all kids know you don't just use a dinosaur in victorian london as a macguffin

I thought he was a bit boring in the debut episode. A bit too much "me crazy" acting - like Matt Smith in Nightmare in Silver. But he was great this week. And it seemed like he had a specific idea about the character, rather than a random grab bag of "this could work" business

Okay but you're acting like the debut was five episodes ago instead of last week

Doc Who like the NFL in that respect

the writing and the plotting? the mr. pink school sequence looked like it was written by someone who has not only never been in a classroom but by someone who has never met a woman before. i am willing to acknowledge this may be my fault if it's a matter of turning off an inner critic but the eccleston / tennant years (while often doofusy) didn't feel as relentlessly dumb as these two eps already have.

Let me check here: in a story where a 2,000 year old time-travelling alien with a spaceship that’s infinitely bigger on the inside, and a school teacher, and a bunch of future space soldiers get shrunk down to miniature, and walk through a psychedelic portal into the combination battletank/life support for a brewed-in-a-vat mutant blob descendent of the mutant blob survivors of a nuclear war, and convert it from fascist hatred to remorse by crawling around on it’s memory to remind it of how pretty explosions are when they’re really big ---

--- you’re put off by a brief scene in a 2014 Earth school not being written with 100% documentary realism?

The scene was written by someone who went from being a school teacher directly to writing every episode of an internationally successful five-year series about school characters, set in a school – sometimes he made them a bit snappier, a bit sassier, or heightened and condensed their emotional reactions, for comedy or dramatic effect. The school scene here seemed more flatly, more openly played than that. Dude also went on to write every episode of a little-seen two-year sit-trag, and then every episode of a four-year hit series sitcom, about men sometimes having difficulty communicating to women, with comedic and farcical consequences. This scene showed a dude not quite communicating his interest to a woman, to the amusement of both her and us – it doesn’t seem like a plotting flaw. It also managed to show that Danny Pink has been unattached for a while, is interested in Clara, is sublimating his need for communication and to be vulnerable into work, that he probably has some degree of PTSD after killing a female non-combatant in a war and is trying to atone for it, and that these things are likely to affect the way the two characters relate in upcoming episodes. In plotting terms, it’s doing a pretty hefty job of heavy lifting in a very short amount of screen time.

By “never met a woman before” do you specifically mean that Clara wouldn’t respond to his awkward embarrassment at her invitation by following up to see what was up, because no woman would ever pursue a man who seems to be interested but shy, or...?

(nb I've never seen Chalk)

wait where did "female non-combatant" come from

Someone (Clara?) called him a "lady killer" - like sic I think that was a pointer to a future reveal about what makes him cry.

It was the headmaster

the noncombatant bit comes from the student asking him if he's ever killed anyone who wasn't a soldier. "ladykiller" sequence follows less than a minute later. it's a deliberate hint, even if it turns out to be a feint later.

Yes the non-combatant part was pretty explicit, what with the lingering tear etc. I was questioning the female part, which makes logical sense but will make me roll my eyes so hard from a storytelling standpoint.

I disagree that the school scenes were particularly bad, but I do think that it's valid to take issue with a present-day real-life section of an otherwise fantasy text. There are lines where you draw your suspension of disbelief: frequently these come where fantasies contradict their own internal logic, and part of Dr Who's logic is that there is a contemporaneous real world that matches our own, and that humans behave in a human manner. If someone feels that the representation of those are shit, then it's perfectly reasonable for them to complain about it.

Though as I say, I thought those scenes were fine.

Yeah they were good. Efficient storytelling, as sic was saying, without seeming rushed. And certainly no more unbelievable than your standard non-SF drama.

The thing that rang false to me was his reaction to the kid's question and Clara's teasing, mostly due to a conversation I had a few weeks ago with a vet who served in Afghanistan about how off-putting and stupid he finds the "did you ever kill anyone" question. I'm sure there are people out there who would react to Clara's borderline-cruel glibness with concern that the students were telling everyone he cried in class but I didn't buy that he would walk away from the conversation still interested in her.

(Like, it would have made more sense to me for him to have brushed her off after her jibe, her to go through the adventure and get to know and relate to Journey, then come back with an apology that led to a reconciliation and a date.)

Presumably he realises she has no idea what he's upset about because she doesn't know anything about his background except for soldier -> teacher, so there's no hint of cruelness at all, and he's only bringing his own sensitivity and baggage to the fore, and doesn't hold it against her

Though he does against himself

(wait which jibe?)

I do think that it's valid to take issue with a present-day real-life section of an otherwise fantasy text. There are lines where you draw your suspension of disbelief

absolutely, but it's literally the only thing forks cites as example of the "writing and plotting" of the episode being "relentlessly dumb"

oh right: "What, shoot people then cry about it afterwards?" Yes, but I think this is deliberately telling us about his character that he takes this so internalised, both in the moment and the aftermath, instead of coldly but politely putting her down, or lashing out at her unthinkingness. She's a dick, but doesn't mean to be; he'd be justifed in writing her off, but it tells us about his personal sensitivity and his empathy that he doesn't.

I think it's closer to "she's a dick without thinking about it" because I really don't think as an adult that you can say something like that without even entertaining the possibility that someone might find it incredibly dickish; possibly this is going to be something that the 12/Clara interaction is going to expose in her personality as something to work on/through?

I didn't think it was a huge problem, but I didn't quite buy it: (previous) DJP post otm, basically - I wasn't really convinced by how quickly he gathers himself to spot that Clara's comment was glib bantz rather than cruel, informed mockery.

she immediately realises she's said something over the line and upset him, which is important to his forgiving/accepting the accidental/unthinking nature of it.

but also notable that she realises this from reading his reaction, she still doesn't process her actual words and work out the degree of the offence, or possibly *why* it caused that reaction

fair point

honestly I thought this was well-acted, I just didn't buy the baseline sequence of events given an rather illuminating IRL conversation I had a couple of weeks ago

(it's kind of sad that I am having problems remembering that Danny's name is Danny)

Maybe if his surname started with a P...

hee hee

yeah, I like Danny, like the actor, but was just a bit unpersuaded by the rapidity of movement from mock-my-tears to go-for-a-drink.

I thought this was alright. Not as good as a second episode should have been though; the premise seemed a bit cheesy. Actors all comporting themselves well though

Apparently Dalek: Fantastic Voyage hadn't been done yet. Liked this episode a lot and agreed - big improvement on the pilot. I like the axis of imperial grumpy Doctors so Capaldi is A+. I'll even sit through the customary medieval times episode next week.

There's never been a Medieval episode in nu-Who, though, or has there? They've been to the Shakespeare/Elizabeth I era, and Ancient Rome, but nowhere in between.

Personally, I've always loved odd revisionist interpretations of the Robin Hood legend, so I can't wait for this one. I even liked the Star Trek TNG episode where Q turned the Enterprise crew members into Robin Hood' Merry Men.

last time they went inside the Doctor's own head to cure a virus:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bYKTq2_CkHg/UiBcMmI318I/AAAAAAAABWk/wZSKI1yyLU8/s1600/vlcsnap-2013-08-30-17h25m05s38.jpg

(next week's is by Gatiss and has had appalling reviews btw)

Second episode in the series is usually some tossed off formulaic romp so actually this was quite a step up.

xp These appalling Gatiss reviews? Most I've seen suggest this one's actually really funny and really good.

gatiss has pretty much always been A+ for me

Blimey, does Ben Miller look like Anthony Ainley in that trailer or what?

i spect this has been observed before… caecilius-face choice - the dad in the family he saved from vesuvius. when Donna had pleaded and he'd initially said no way, he couldn't go back and save the timelords, so he couldn't save vesuvians (?). but he did, he saved caecilius. and later he discovers the time lords were merely lost, and then after a millennium long siege they manage to grant him a new face, and he takes this one. this is all leading back to gallifrey innit :-(

I was wondering what the story was on Gallifrey I thought he was coming aboard as the Doctor had an existing task of finding the hidden world after the anniversary episode.

Personally, I've always loved odd revisionist interpretations of the Robin Hood legend, so I can't wait for this one. I even liked the Star Trek TNG episode where Q turned the Enterprise crew members into Robin Hood' Merry Men.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, September 3, 2014 7:39 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm surprised not to see a mention of men in tights here, tuomas!

I must protest. I am NOT a Merry man!

Lol.