Yeah, let's not become Captain Save-a-Jock - good point. I do think it might be useful to identify the specific strategies, channels, and rhetorical guises misogyny takes in these different circles though - your fedora-wearing, arms-crossed internet cynic nerd rationalizes misogyny through very different channels and rhetoric IME.
― Doctor Casino, Saturday, 6 September 2014 17:59 (nine years ago) link
red bull seems to be doing its part to bridge the nerd/jock/bro divide:http://www.redbullmusicacademy.jp/jp/magazine/digging-in-the-carts
― Philip Nunez, Saturday, 6 September 2014 18:13 (nine years ago) link
I'm actually very close w people who were jocks. And nerds. I also have a very specific window into things here, which is first hand reading all the garbage emails and rape threats received by my female coworkers so yeah maybe I see it a certain way....
― rap steve (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 6 September 2014 18:32 (nine years ago) link
Or to say don't doubt that for every Zoe Quinn or Anita S there are 20 women who don't go public w stuff in games
― rap steve (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 6 September 2014 18:33 (nine years ago) link
Um, is that addressed toward me? Because believe me, I don't doubt it. Nothing in what I said implied that I doubted it. I have no idea how you could possibly infer that I doubted it.
― emil.y, Saturday, 6 September 2014 18:35 (nine years ago) link
Sorry u too many #notallgamers & #notyourshield crap this week, sincere apologies, I almost get used to things going aggro from the jump
― rap steve (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 6 September 2014 18:45 (nine years ago) link
Oh, no, the shit coming from the gaming world is very real and pernicious, obv. I'm just saying that there's real and pernicious shit everywhere else, too. It's all horribly, horribly depressing.
― emil.y, Saturday, 6 September 2014 18:56 (nine years ago) link
in england, certainly, the sort of people who will own, say, 'gears of war' swag, don't, i think, map onto either 'jocks' or 'nerds'. they might map onto 'people who have conversations about mobile phones'. i wonder how they map onto 'metal listeners'
i think the intensification of misogynist content in games rn is a bit like the intensification of misogynist content in 'rock' music over the period '70-'89, maybe, both seem an artifact of the balkanisation of a previously monolithic (or possible to treat as monolithic) audience
unclear perhaps whether god of war is at the 'virgin killer' or 'appetite for destruction' end of that cycle
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Saturday, 6 September 2014 19:03 (nine years ago) link
i get the sense that jocks today are de facto gamers because madden etc... is part of their training protocols now. maybe in england it's different because there are no rowing simulators. fifa though...
― Philip Nunez, Saturday, 6 September 2014 19:27 (nine years ago) link
these people wd play iss pro
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Saturday, 6 September 2014 19:51 (nine years ago) link
not sure if that's accurate tbf
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Saturday, 6 September 2014 19:52 (nine years ago) link
is there a video on the internet of milhouse shouting 'im not a nerd - nerds are smart!' that i could link here
― Lamp, Saturday, 6 September 2014 20:28 (nine years ago) link
If the internet has taught us anything it's that nerds are worse than jocks when given the chance
― rap steve (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, September 6, 2014 12:09 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
never give nerds a chance my motto
― lag∞n, Saturday, 6 September 2014 20:33 (nine years ago) link
Also it should be said that lots of these nerd types really just despise and look down on pretty much everyone, and there's a partic strain of pseudo intellectual bs that differentiates them from actual "smart kids" and continues into adulthood.
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Saturday, September 6, 2014 1:27 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i feel like this is the defining characteristic of nerd culture thinking youre better than everyone cause youre smart, thinking being smart is the only thing that matters, defining intelligence so narrowly as to be meaningless
― lag∞n, Saturday, 6 September 2014 20:39 (nine years ago) link
irks me how nerds are always portrayed as gentle inquisitive souls when theyre often so completely arrogant, not that gentle inquisitive nerds dont exist
― lag∞n, Saturday, 6 September 2014 20:44 (nine years ago) link
Gentle inquisitive nerds rock, but don't tend to have very popular YouTube channels.
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 6 September 2014 20:53 (nine years ago) link
Thought this was good:
http://deathofgamergate.tumblr.com/
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 8 September 2014 14:53 (nine years ago) link
That is very good
also lol @ GamerGate, now and forever
― stacked as fuck & imposing (DJP), Monday, 8 September 2014 15:19 (nine years ago) link
i always think ofhttp://aznbadger.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/shadowgate3.png
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 8 September 2014 15:33 (nine years ago) link
The tumblr is very good - one thing that it largely misses though is the collection of bugs under this uncovered rock, people who are convinced that 'SJWs' have been involved in a protracted effort to infiltrate games journalism and now the, er, ivory towers of indie games (?!?) because they hate gamers and they have as their goal the elimination of the gamer identity and the ruining of games by 'forcing' them to change from the good old days (Sarkeesian is far more of a hate-figure for this mob than Quinn).
I'm aware of the very large gulf of analogy, but the tone of the language actually reminds me of 30s German anti-semitism: These people are responsible for the fact that it's not the days of glory any more, these people are invisibly in cliques in positions of influence (and can only be there for subterfuge as they definitionally can't share the same identity as you and I), these people must be fought against at all costs.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:00 (nine years ago) link
http://cdn.broscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nerd1.jpg
― am0n, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:23 (nine years ago) link
The floor recognises the representative from broscience.org
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:29 (nine years ago) link
I sort of understand where Mordy's coming from with the desire to hold onto a flag you find worthwhile even as its been poisoned by others, but having fought that fight myself over a few different flags I'd argue it's almost never worth it--you wind up backing into a corner splitting hairs and spluttering that you're not Like Those People, and no true scotsman would ever be.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:49 (nine years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ZWKH45N.png
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:50 (nine years ago) link
I'm aware of the very large gulf of analogy, but the tone of the language actually reminds me of 30s German anti-semitism:
this exact thought came to me as well.
also on the level of "we need to keep an eye on these people"
― goole, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:51 (nine years ago) link
whats it like to fight over a flag
― am0n, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:53 (nine years ago) link
cramped i wd imagine
― Daphnis Celesta, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:54 (nine years ago) link
capture the flag is one of my all time favorite games
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:54 (nine years ago) link
http://jeff.rainbow-100.com/other/dosgames/21-1.png
^ more accepted in this form of media
― am0n, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:56 (nine years ago) link
h00s, i was thinking about this a bit over the weekend. it was particularly funny when someone mentioned Zionism as a metaphor for gamers itt bc obv that's a much more complex/controversial flag under which i fight. i just don't think it makes sense to abdicate identity markers instead of reclaim them - both bc ceding the ground leads to unintentional results (like only terrible ppl representing a cause you might otherwise believe in) as well as personal loss. idk.
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:59 (nine years ago) link
i can think of like a dozen other examples of this - i'm not about to toss away the NFL bc of concussions and Ray Rice and Incognito etc either
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:01 (nine years ago) link
i wanna make a free online game about flag-burning, anyone kno flash
― am0n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:04 (nine years ago) link
one thing imo strongly identifying as a gamer is kinda frivolous and consumerist, like if thats yr thing in life u might not be doing that good
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:09 (nine years ago) link
i don't necessarily think being a 'gamer' (at least how i've understood it) is frivolous and consumerist. yes, it can be, if you organize your identity around your game purchases. but you could be very active in, eg, the IF community, write your own games, play other ppl's games, write reviews + give feedback, and that's a totally different emphasis. or like hardcore board gamers or war gamers, i've never thought of them as particularly consumerist (even tho you do have to buy the games in those cases, but that's not what distinguishes the hobby).
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:15 (nine years ago) link
yeah idk theres just something very indicative of contemporary dysfunction in strongly identifying with entertainment imo
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:17 (nine years ago) link
more so than identifying w/ cinema, or literature?
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:17 (nine years ago) link
pretty similar prob but im sure some differences cld be teased out
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:19 (nine years ago) link
if you write your own games i give you a pass but im sure thats less than like .01% of gamers
its consumerist but also involves tech-condescension and virtual competition. its like a perfect storm for the alpha nerd supermen
― am0n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:20 (nine years ago) link
i'm v. sympathetic to the idea that capitalism has basically totally subsumed/co-opted all these creative endeavors, but i still believe (and continue to identify as a music fan, film fan, lit fan, game fan, etc) and search out in these "entertainments" resistance or at least the opiate-void.
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:21 (nine years ago) link
i've written my own games, tho not in many years. generally i believe that creation is the best way to resist the hegemony but also i'm very lazy
feel like the game aspect reduces the ability to convey profundity that movies and books sometimes have but still being a reader or a movie buff who cares
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:22 (nine years ago) link
i mean im both of those things and i even love games tho not so much video ones but i dont build my identity around any of that
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:23 (nine years ago) link
depends on the game. i've had profound experiences in games that are irreproducible in lit + film (in civ, in dwarf fortress), not to mention the kind of ludic expressivity that other mediums can't capture - the participatory/improv element.
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:24 (nine years ago) link
what does a lag00n build his identity around?
*bro-hoof*
― am0n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:25 (nine years ago) link
free spirit. lucid dreamer. citizen of the world. bacon fanatic. uncle.
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:25 (nine years ago) link
video game lifestyle is kinda like the heroin lifestyle only fatter
― example (crüt), Monday, 8 September 2014 17:27 (nine years ago) link
i should clarify that 'gamer' is not at the top of my list of identifications. my social/relationship and religious affiliations take precedence. but considering how many hours i spend gaming in my life it would be silly i think to say that it had nothing to do w/ how i see myself.
― Mordy, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:27 (nine years ago) link
― Mordy, Monday, September 8, 2014 1:24 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah im open to the idea that games can convey profundity, its a p interesting question, def a different profundity than books or movies, tho i do think the losing/winning binary game aspect tends to hit a different part of the mind
― lag∞n, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:28 (nine years ago) link