she should be skinny and angry
― jello my future biafriend (roxymuzak), Monday, 6 October 2014 21:19 (nine years ago) link
"she should be Michelle Obama"
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 October 2014 23:48 (nine years ago) link
Wait, was that chaki post a surprise?
― 💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Monday, 6 October 2014 23:50 (nine years ago) link
don't unban chaki
― Mordy, Monday, 6 October 2014 23:53 (nine years ago) link
Ha, someone just posted this on my feedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jObonJzJZG0
― tsrobodo, Monday, 6 October 2014 23:59 (nine years ago) link
I feel like that's pretty much the same critical argument I've read time and again about artists like Corinne Bailey Rae. It's okay to just dislike someone's music without expressing your dislike in terms of how that artist failed to live up/down to some nebulous cultural expectation you harbor in your bigoted mind. It's exceptionally gross.
― Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:01 (nine years ago) link
All of those critiques/complaints read to me like some people are PISSED that there are black middle-class musicians
― 💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:06 (nine years ago) link
reminder of how many ilxors used to love chaki and would never ever ever call him out
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:07 (nine years ago) link
what a fucking cunt who needed a severe beatdown tho, right? i hope he got it.
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:08 (nine years ago) link
― 💪😈⚠️ (DJP)
This was a repulsive strain in a lot of eighties criticism of black pop (Vandross, Baker, Jackson). They couldn't be Prince hence were suspect.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:12 (nine years ago) link
it's still pretty common now!
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:14 (nine years ago) link
jill scott is terribly underratedlong as we're on this diversion, i barely remember this entering the conversation but one of the fappening pics was hers and her response was impressively above the frayhttps://twitter.com/missjillscott/status/507503268541394945more discussion here (and in a too much time on ilx double header, this article is by the jazzsplaining guy)http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/05/after-naked-photo-hack-white-feminists-ignore-jill-scott/
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:19 (nine years ago) link
Greil Marcus quote from the eighties:
“I think Anita Baker is ridiculous. Any time you hear somebody bringing back this kind of genteel, effete black music--the same number the Pointer Sisters pulled in the early '70s when they gave concerts with ‘Black Tie Recommended’ printed on the tickets--it's an incident in class politics that has nothing to do with music."
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:21 (nine years ago) link
rock critics HAAAAAATED neo-soul. erykah got out bc she's ostentatiously weird but jill scott, angie stone let alone india arie got zero respect.
THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS THAT ROCK CRITICS AIN'T SHIT obviously. let no one refer to greil marcus as a respected authority again
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:26 (nine years ago) link
also can we literally cut the dicks off everyone involved in the "fappening"
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:27 (nine years ago) link
this thread has me replaying words and sounds v 1 so that's good
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:46 (nine years ago) link
well greil marcus is also a misogynist imo, which doubles up on things
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 01:03 (nine years ago) link
genteel, effete black music
Uh?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 03:45 (nine years ago) link
Lex have you really always been into neo soul like that? I don't remember you posting about it all that often
Critics generally liked neo soul is my recollection but I was probably not reading the same critics. I did have a knee jerk neo soul is overrated period that was very ilm inspired but more a result of ilm enabling my "no reason to feel guilty about..." W/ more pop oriented r&b which was obv super exciting at the time. It's weird to think about now bc I was a big fan of Jill Scott and "a long walk" was on mix tapes when I was a college freshman... I mean I thought Macy gray was the shit in high school and in part for rockist reasons (she also had a cool voice though)
My hating on neo soul period was brief bc then I got a girlfriend and found pop r&b didn't really speak to that as well as grown folks r&b did. Or something. At any rate I was really into dwele
― deej loaf (D-40), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 06:39 (nine years ago) link
Dwele <3
― I pray my drick get big as the Eiffel Tower (Spottie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 07:16 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxGkLOY0lwI
(((d-_-b)))
― deej loaf (D-40), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 07:59 (nine years ago) link
As a rock critic who has been writing about these neo-soul artists for a decade and change and who, until I started working for MOJO, was banging my head against a wall with regards to getting them substantial coverage, the main kickback I used to get from editors was that they didn't think these artists were "interesting" enough, which I think is doubtless a permutation of what Dan says above, about how middle class black artists are considered by magazine editors (who are often from considerably more privileged backgrounds) to not be "real" enough. The example of this that still sticks in my craw is when I was pitching Mos Def, circa his first album, to an editor who replied "We hate him, we hate 'mummy's boy' rappers." I mean, Mos Def is hardly even middle class! He grew up on the same housing project as Biggie!! But if you're not selling drugs or shooting people then you aren't "real", as far as these chodes are concerned.
― A college wearing a sweater that says “John Belushi” (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 08:29 (nine years ago) link
Also, really gladdened to see positive mention of Corinne Bailey Rae here, as I think she is wholly underrated.
Also, I almost picked up an Anita Baker album at a charity shop the other day but didn't. Am regretting it now. Did I fuck up? I love Sweet Love.
― A college wearing a sweater that says “John Belushi” (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 08:37 (nine years ago) link
biggie didnt grow up in housing projects fyi
― deej loaf (D-40), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 09:41 (nine years ago) link
ack i meant jay z - marcy projects.
― A college wearing a sweater that says “John Belushi” (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 09:43 (nine years ago) link
corrine bailey rae's closer is/was one of the best neo soul songs of the past decade.
im not sure critics have ever really gotten erykah. its funny how dangelo has now become so rated outside the usual R&B/rap circles, cos i dont remember it being quite so unanimous back in 2000, but its nice to see. erykah however, i think still isnt quite there, even in spite of flaming lips endorsements etc. maybe dangelo just fits the old soulman model they are more comfortable with whereas erykahs precedents (minnie ripperton, betty davis, etc etc) are maybe more obscure to most rock crits.
― StillAdvance, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 09:49 (nine years ago) link
"if you're not selling drugs or shooting people then you aren't "real", as far as these chodes are concerned."
the opposite also holds true somewhat, or used to much more at least (see: michael franti), with critics who prefer the likes of idk, ghostpoet or lupe than rick ross or waka flocka flame. but i think when neo soul was really peaking, back in the mid-late 90s, i think most critics here, would have been like 'its not real R&B' or futuristic enough (cos yknow, R&B and black music is only good for that). like when simon reynolds drew a binary rza (boring, trad, staid, etc) in the late 90s and what timbo and missy were doing.
― StillAdvance, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 09:52 (nine years ago) link
*drew a a binary between
― StillAdvance, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 09:53 (nine years ago) link
tbh most critics i know are wild badu fans but that could be the circles i run in
― A college wearing a sweater that says “John Belushi” (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 09:58 (nine years ago) link
since the first amerykah album, sure, but when she made mamas gun, or baduizm? i only remember her getting raves from R&B/rap critics
― StillAdvance, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:04 (nine years ago) link
i think in the uk, most rock/pop critics had bad desree flashbacks (fwiw, i did not mind desree!)
Definitely Mama's Gun and Worldwide Underground
― A college wearing a sweater that says “John Belushi” (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:10 (nine years ago) link
i wasn't on ilm in the late 90s! but actually, that was when i was still young enough to be influenced by rock critics, who all told me neo-soul was boring, so i actually didn't check out a lot of the key albums til much later.
yeah this is otm, new amerykah - being all Political and Weird and all those bullshit reasons for credibility so beloved by critics - changed her standing among UK critics a lot. (i don't mean all critics, just most mainstream ones.)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:35 (nine years ago) link
presented without comment http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/apr/01/erykah-badu-new-amerykah-part-two
yeah even I think the straight soul stuff on new amerykah 2 is awesome. dunno then how petridis is even capable of forming such opinions
― Ƹ༑Ʒ (imago), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:38 (nine years ago) link
anyone else in the 2 > 1 camp btw? it's close but
― Ƹ༑Ʒ (imago), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:39 (nine years ago) link
they're different flavours, i can't really decide which is best. they're both best.
― You've been yelped (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:42 (nine years ago) link
not read that review, but vol 2 was her doing what she can do in her sleep, just not as well as she has done previously IMO :|
― StillAdvance, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:50 (nine years ago) link
― A college wearing a sweater that says “John Belushi” (stevie),
You fucked up but you can still repent. Buy it.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 10:57 (nine years ago) link
Thank Alfred - repent I shall!
― You've been yelped (stevie), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 11:39 (nine years ago) link
Love Eryka, love Corinne, love Anita, love Goapele, Van Hunt, Dionne Farris, and many of their other "lame" contemporaries. Anyone who's carrying the torch of '70s r&b/soul/funk with competence and style is okay by me.
I think much of this issue boils down to fear of admitting appreciation of an artist one might hear in Starbucks. And bigotry, obvs.
― Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 11:39 (nine years ago) link
I think I remember Badu getting decent coverage in MOJO late 90s, substantial live reviews etc
How it is possible to come to the conclusion that Anita Baker is "ridiculous", whatever you think of the music? JFC
― Master of Treacle, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 12:38 (nine years ago) link
i feel like the schism we're talking about still exists -- a lot of great ballad-driven 'upscale' R&B coming out these days (Marsha Ambrosius, Toni Braxton & Babyface, etc.) but a lot of critics and music people only care about the hip hop-ish stuff like Ty Dolla $ign etc
― some dude, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 12:43 (nine years ago) link
gets no better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjn8QZmyPlk
― piscesx, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 12:59 (nine years ago) link
Condescending to young black female singers is the easiest thing in the world, and because their forbears aren't mythologized like Nirvana or the Clash, white kids don't grow up appreciating them.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:07 (nine years ago) link
This one did, fwiw.
― Eric H., Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:17 (nine years ago) link
it's not just critics, though; when I was a teen in the late 80s/early 90s Anita Baker songs, Sade, "Piano in the Dark", and so on, were mainstays on top 40 radio. a few years later, "On & On", "Killing Me Softly", and so on. nowadays if I want to hear e.g. "Hurt You" I can't hear it on pop radio. I know there are a zillion threads about this but as a non-critic I want to hear this music like I used to, without delving into specific genre radio etc.
― droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:19 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, it's a little sad that I've had to be plugged into ILM to discover artists like Teedra Moses who could've easily made their mark on the charts twenty years ago.
― Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:32 (nine years ago) link
I can't resist quoting from that Petredis review:
"Her attention has shifted from barricades to boudoir."
And comparing neo-soul to Ocean Colour Scene, Cast, and other nobodies that constituted the "second wave" of Britpop.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:39 (nine years ago) link
this inspired me to listen to new amerykah pt 2 which i'd kinda forgotten to check out...anyway....check out her "related artist" tab on Spotify....one of these things is not like the other
http://s7.postimg.org/halp41icr/baduspotify.jpg
― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 14:21 (nine years ago) link