OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY: nu-Who season 8

Ah ok thanks for that. I conflated it with the companion-bails arc they've muddled/discarded, I thought that dialogue had to do with that conflict

Yeah I was really impressed with the effects too! Though now I will expect Cenobites to come out of a seiged Tardis

that was all kinds of good... banter, TARDIS weirdness, creepy aliens. loved it!

muddled/discarded

this arc is addressed and advanced in several scenes this episode

great ep yeah. you can see why, as with Cross last year, Mathieson was immediately commissioned for a second episode to precede his first

i think the dr's "goodness had nothing to do with it" is part of the concern that Frank Skinner raised last ep, re "it changes people" and Clara previously "addiction". the dr is concerned he's changing her, and not for the better, and for her own good he's going to be the one who puts an end to her stint.

But then how do you carry that through to there ever being any other companions in the tardis ever?

oh yeah, and btw, this was an amazing episode. I am going to re-watch the series and skip robot of sherwood, which I think tipped me early into under-appreciating the following eps.

Seems like a common view of this series is it's been better as a show, but it might be losing it's children-friendly episodes. (i.e. low on monsters)

is there any evidence for that - i mean is there any evidence that those are more children friendly? all the anecdotal evidence here and elsewhere suggests that children are enjoying this series as much (if not more in some cases) than others. that's on a, ahhh, 7-14 scale I think. With a rigorous sample size of about 6.

fair do. i'm only going on my kids who have lost interest, and random twitter chat. (RTC was overwhelmingly +ve after last night)

that sounds like a better sample than mine! shame tho. capaldi has been great. his little dance of pleasure after having accomplished that awkward TARDIS moving sequence was v amusing.

If anything, I feel this series has been a bit too kid-friendly: all the episodes so far have been pretty much been standalone stories about the monster-of-the-week, there's not much of an overarching plot... We've had a few glimpses of "Missy", but so far they've been kinda incomprehensible, and haven't really tied into the plots of the individual episodes except in a most superficial way. I know Moffat has been criticized for his needlessly complex and long plots, and I can see the point with something like the "Impossible Girl", but OTOH I hope he hasn't responded to the criticism by making the series completely episodic. My favourite series is still number 6, where I think there was a good balance between standalone episodes and the longer plot arc (the cracks in the universe) that managed to tie with the invidual episodes without overwhelming.

So far the only proper multi-episode arc has been for Clara's character development, which has been handled really well, but that kind of a thing should be business as usual for a TV show, not the main seasonal plot. Though yesterday's episode seemed to hint there's a connection between "Missy" and Clara (possibly she's a future incarnation of her?), so maybe Clara changing and starting to act like the Doctor is tied to the "Missy" plot? Maybe Clara becoming "the Doctor" in this ep was not just a reflection on her psychological change, but a hint that she will eventually evolve into something like the Doctor, i.e. Missy?

Or maybe Missy's supposed to be the "benevolent" flipside of the Doctor? The Doctor she can't save everyone, some folks have to die so that others can live (this theme was most obvious in the Dalek and Mummy eps), but so far the people Missy has saved are ones that the Doctor couldn't. That would also tie in with Doctor's comment discussed above, that goodness has nothing to do with being the Doctor. Maybe Missy is like a version of the Doctor who thinks she can be good, that she can save everyone?

"that managed to tie with the invidual episodes without overwhelming them"

Is Missy supposed to have anything to do with the anthropomorphic tardis we saw in that episode

I feel this series has been a bit too kid-friendly

It is a show for children. Feel like this season has really ramped up the horror actually, I was genuinely creeped out by this one.

This was so much fun!

not a single episode would i allow my 5-yr-old to see, that's for sure

giant hand pulling me backwards thru a train tunnel??? gggggnnnnhhhaaaah

all the episodes so far have been pretty much been standalone stories about the monster-of-the-week, there's not much of an overarching plot.

This is a good thing.

Time travelling future Danny is definitely part of an overarching plot, but given the kind of knots Moffatt usually ties himself up in when he attempts an overarching plot, I'm welcoming the scaling back of that side of things.

This is the best nu-Who season fwiw.

This is the best nu-Who season fwiw.

Absolutely. No competition.

I dunno, it's been arguably the most consistent, and the most well-paced, but there hasn't been a story anywhere near the calibre of say The Empty Child, Blink or Human Nature yet.

Listen.

Good, but not up there.

I agree with Chap, this season has been the most consistently good, but so far there hasn't been a really classic episode, none of the episodes have had that extra inch that pushes them beyond merely having a good concept and a good villain. Also, several eps, particularly "Listen", have been marred by having an overtly long and finger-pointing end monologue that explains what the episode was about, even though it was already obvious without the monologue.

(also the TV version of Human Nature is p weak)

I disagree (not read the book).

there hasn't been a story anywhere near the calibre of say The Empty Child, Blink or Human Nature yet.

The same could be said for virtually the entire Moffatt era.

Yeah, I kind of agree with that. Moffat definitely did his best writing for RTD.

Though Eleventh Hour is probably the best regeneration story ever.

IMO Moffat's strengths as shorunner have been in the longer plot arcs, which have definitely been better during his run than during Davies's. That's exactly why I was mourning the seeming lack of those during this season; we haven't had any individual episodes as brilliant as the best of the Davies era, but neither have we had the sort of intriguing series-spanning plots that made Moffat's first two series so watchable.

Also, the "Elevent Hour" was a premium example of how to do a good end monologue: it was short, snappy and established the new Doctor as a force to be reckoned with. Compared to that, this season's closing monologues have been closer to those scenes that always came at the end of Masters of the Universe, where He-Man explained to the kids what was the moral of this week's episode.

i'd rather watch capaldi and coleman hanging wallpaper together than any shenanigans you could cook up with gillan and smith

intriguing series-spanning plots that made Moffat's first two series so watchable.

See I found the season arcs hopelessly convoluted, distracting, and shoddily resolved mostly (the one in Smith's first season was OK).

I think it makes a difference that I grew up on Old-Who; I expect Dr. Who to be almost an anthology series with minimal to no continuity between stories. I know in this age of boxsets you have to have some kind of 'arc', but I think this is the first Moffat season to achieve an agreeable balance between that and self-contained episodes.

The same could be said for virtually the entire Moffatt era.

Also the RTD era, once you take out the Moffatt episodes

I disagree (not read the book).

The book is a billion times better

Note that the writer of Human Nature thinks this year is the best season of Who ever and may contain five of his all-time favourite episodes already

Although also keep in mind that the writer of Human Nature is a little bit of a fanny

Just been watching Hartnell episodes after getting to the end of Baker. Baker's end seemed to consciously return the show to kids tv from the moment they step into the pocket universe at least.
Funny to find the current series going for a later slot, is it consciously distancing itself from being a kid's show or does everybody record it anyway making slot no longer relevant?

Funny seeing how frequently lines were flubbed or misread, or mis accentuated totally in the early years. Were there less takes back then? Hartnell does it several times per episode & he's far from alone.
Just half watched the Web Planet which is pretty psychedelic for early 65.

There were no retakes at all in the early years unless the TARDIS fell over or someone died, they only stopped cameras to change set

It's moved to later to avoid clashing with singing and dancing competition shows

Although also keep in mind that the writer of Human Nature is a little bit of a fanny

everyone's a little bit of a fanny tbf

let he who is wholly without fannydom cast the first fanny

they only stopped cameras to change set

and then only if necessary - note in the first ep how the Susan in class flashbacks don't have Ian or Barbara in them, because they're already in the car set and delivering their lines from there

also maybe pick a thread to talk about old Who in?

Things I just found out: The current Doctor played George Harrison in that horrible John & Yoko TV movie from 1985:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOzmhlgwM4E

Whoooooa good find!!

And John is McGann's brother, crazy

Funny just saw the real Beatles on a Hartnell episode of the series The Chase. Wondered if it meant the Beatles were fans until I read it was a TOTP clip and apparently the one surviving clip from their appearances there.
Had me wondering what other pop culture stuff had appeared on the show. But can't really think of anything else.

Wondered if it meant the Beatles were fans

Think this answers that question:

http://static2.dmcdn.net/static/video/716/951/31159617:jpeg_preview_large.jpg?20110505032233

That is crazy! I just watched that John & Yoko special the other day. I actually really enjoy it (apart from the horrible Beatles impersonations).

lol chap

the beatles were fans and were actually going to be on dr who until a scheduling conflict, so the totp video was used instead

so, not conflict, it was epstein who stopped them: "The Beatles were to have filmed an in-studio cameo for The Chase in which they played elderly versions of themselves, circa 1996, playing at the Festival of Ghana. Their manager, Brian Epstein, however, forbade this. Had this happened, it would have created an anachronism, given the early death of John Lennon. Ironically, given the loss of many Doctor Who episodes due to the BBC's policy of erasing old episodes, the clip of a live performance of the Beatles singing "Ticket to Ride" only survives because of its use in the first episode of The Chase. It originated in a 1965 Top of the Pops episodes which no longer exists in the BBC Archives. Because the production team for the story sourced the clips from this episode, this makes this the only known surviving footage of that performance known to exist." http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beatles

"Had me wondering what other pop culture stuff had appeared on the show. But can't really think of anything else"

depends on what you mean by pop culture of course. But pop music, and pop stars there's been plenty of - not even counting Billie. McFly were in nu-who, the Simm's Master was very pop, dancing to Scissor Sisters and conjuring up earth's destruction by invoking Rogue Trader's (Elvis Costello sampling') Voodoo Child. (The most musical cast episode would have been old-who Delta and the Bannermen which featured Stubby Kaye, Ken Dodd and a member of The Flying Pickets - two UK number 1 acts right there - though they're not playing themselves)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOK1YdWalOw

and they reprised that with Simm watching the Teletubbies