Serial - the podcast *spoilers*

oh he's one of the dudes in those historical figure vs historical figure rap videos (the only one I remember seeing is the Keynes vs. Hayek one -- or Keynes vs Friedman or something).

They can fuck off as well

there was a month-or-so with regular airing of that commercial with dude dressed as a pirate and rapping about being the 'high seas caesar' or some shit.

it was the worst

at least Hayek/Keynes was an actual historical argument. The Serial rap guy does stuff like Stephen King vs. Edgar Allen Poe. What was their beef again?

Poe's ghost hit King with a car

Poe's brother wrote House of Leaves

Can't wait for Thinkpieceapalooza after the finale.

just imagine Slate's pitch meeting tomorrow.

Adnan's tic of peppering his sentences with "right" irks me, I think that's one of the main reasons I think he probably did it

ha

solid pitch, can we get a "people who say right probably murderers" teaser pushed out to social media asap?

Tomorrow's episode is titled "What We Know", so I guess it's okay to start publishing the thinkpieces now.

some people are speculating that she has an interview with Jen she's saving for the final--as she's been using Jen's last name throughout the series

I guess not, then. But Jay's porn store buddy was the best interview of the series.

i get her point, but it's really unsatisfying that deidra just sez 'big picture' in re: explaining jay tying to the serial killer theory

Yeah, it seemed like they were trying hard to avoid the point that this was either Adnan or Jay, and as we've said here, Jay doing this by himself is nonsensical

A satisfying enough final episode, I think, although I'm a lot close to Koenig's producer's POV than I am hers or the Innocence Projects (not a juror thankfully so I don't feel need to be bound by Reasonable Doubt). Innocence Project's "big picture" answer sorta hilarious.

we should get Spoilers added to the thread title, I guess.

I'm totally with Dana Chivis too - you have to buy too many unlikely coincedences to think that Adnan's telling the truth. And her list didn't even include all of them. It felt a little manipulative - or just a bad narrative choice - to hold back on articulating that list of hoops you have to jump through to buy Adnan's story until the final episode. I get that it kept the tension high - but the show lost credibility to me midway through when they weren't letting on that they could see Adnan's pattern of "coincedences" (aka bullshit) that was so plain to listeners.

But I could respect SK's conclusion which I took as: as a juror, you'd need to acquit. Beyond that, his story is hard to swallow... but there are no facts we have in hand that absolutely prove he did it.

Serial killer theory seems ludicrous to me and I think they were wise not to go too hardcore on it in the finale. It kind of made me a little dubious of The Innocence Project, to be honest. Especially "big picture"! Seems hugely inconsistent that she didn't point out that this is exactly the same kind of confirmation bias and selective way of looking at the evidence that she got upset about earlier in the show. The "there are no unfriendly facts" thing was one of my favourite SK moments in the show - but in the end, I don't feel like she was able to apply that to her own thinking.

re: 33:33…. OR THAT HE'S NOT AT THE HOUSE&%$!$!$

Also re: Nisha call. I don't feel like the new info was at all significant. Jay and Nisha both agree they spoke that day. That's two human beings and the call record that line up, vs. Adnan's "um, I dunno, butt dial?"

Of course, the big problem is that she says Jay was at a job he didn't have yet... which is enough to throw it out as hard evidence.

But I can rationalize it... she was asked about it at least six weeks later, when Jay did have that video store job - which she might have known (or it could have been something the cops put in her head). "He works in a porn video store!" is something that sticks in your head, especially as a teenager - she might have just been mixed up...

That said, you can't put much weight on it - because her memory is flawed. You also have to say "OK could have been a butt dial" anyway because, fine, that's possible.

So, basically this show just proved that a jury was wrong to find a murderer guilty

That's not my read.

oh shit - they never used that line from the teaser in ep 1:

“Basically threatened me, like, you know what happened to Hae. This is what’s going to happen to you. That’s how I felt that day.”

that's kind of needs some 'splaining

yeah, that line is like the outrigger on Lost

I guess the bombshells, if they are to be believed, are:

Jay was telling a dude that he helped a middle eastern guy hide Hae's body before the cops got to him--which either means that Jay is a fabulist who got caught up in his own lies, or (more likely) there was no serial killer.

&

The prosecutor yelled at Don for not demonizing Adnan. Which means they knew their case was kind of weak

The case is filled with circumstantial evidence and Jay. It doesn't surprise me that the prosecutor would be looking for every advantage.

Also whatever her flaws in this trial Adnan's lawyer would have appeared very strong and first trial was apparently headed for an acquittal before mistrial.

good ep, good podcast, fuck the haters & free adnan

the rest of those teaser quotes from the end of ep 1 are from some p peripheral ppl, I think right? idk I feel like the threat quote prob isn't very revelatory

maybe it's jen? questioned aggressively by a detective

yeah - it was great episode and a great podcast. I have stuff I think is interesting to talk about - and questions about certain things - but I thought it was pretty amazing. Totally going to miss it and can't wait for season two. Adnan's guilty as sin though.

Best line in final ep is definitely Adnan's politely saying "uh you don't mind me asking, but uh don't you have an ending?"

that was almost straight out of that Funny or Die video from a few days ago

yeah i trust them not to have dropped something hugely revelatory without bothering to explain it - but it is sloppy

this is a little harsh:

VANITY FAIR ‏@VanityFair 2m2 minutes ago
Disappointed in the ending of @serial? Here's a chilling crime story from VF's archives that actually has an ending: http://vnty.fr/1w2JPhL

So it's a contest now? OUR TRUE CRIME STORY IS MORE AWESOMER!

tbf it has always been a contest

I was never as heavily invested in this as (many) other people were. It was just something to listen to at work on Thursday mornings. I didn't feel cheated by the ending, because I think I knew all along that no important mysteries would be solved or nagging questions would get answered. It was just a bit of storytelling.

would be curious to read some sort of smart analysis (sociology?) of these seemingly new internet-driven hype cycles around shows like this and True Detective.

It ended the way most people thought it would, so I can't complain too much, but it's a little frustrating how early in the episode she says "of course I have an ending!" and then ends it with the same wishy-washiness that everybody was afraid of.

My big quibble is that she ended it with the big reveal of her own personal verdict, when A) there are other people closer to the story whose perspectives/experiences/verdicts/takeaways she could have closed with and B) she's made it clear the whole series what her verdict is. She doesn't know for sure.

The first episode ends with that hard-earned, tragic, too-late discovery. Now that's an ending. None of the other 11 episodes were able to close with a moment like that.

jesus, just been reading reddit and a lot of people there are really really dumb. like absurdly. really makes me appreciate the baseline of intelligence and goodwill here.

Don't read reddit.

it's actually making me crazy. it's so cynical and weird and crazy! have to stop.

Don't read reddit.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, December 18, 2014 6:49 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

#lifehack

this was a much better finale than i was expecting - it got back to the more investigative stuff that was the most enthralling in those first few episodes.

i think the point the IP lawyer was making about serial killer theory/"big picture" is that they don't necessarily believe that Hae was killed by that ronald dude, but that they needed a reason to justify further DNA testing. i think adnan is innocent, but i'd believe his guilt over a random serial killer, bc of jay's involvement.

series would have been all killer no filler if they'd stuck to 10 shows (maybe slightly longer episodes) and jettisoned some of the stuck in the weeds stuff of 8-11

yeah i think "big picture" just meant let's see what the DNA yields and start all over again
but it did come off badly in the show

I find the possible serial killer angle v interesting