In the song "New York, New York", is Frank Sinatra saying "New York (City), New York (City)" or "New York (City), New York (State)"?

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there was a population spike in manhattan in 2003: 1,537,195 -> 1,564,798.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

that'll be canceled out when the jets build that horrible stadium and scare everyone away.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait, there's life east of the I-5?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link

also, where shoud any extra people live? in the park? tents?

― Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link

So, is it true that the name the Bronx comes from the fact that most of the Bronx used to be owned by a family named Bronck, so it was called the Bronck's land and then shortened to the Bronx?

Bronck was a Swedish immigrant who settled in (what's now) the Bronx in 1641. His farm was 500 acres.

The area of Throgs Neck is said to be named after a landowner named Throckmorton, and similarly bastardized (from "Throckmorton's Neck").

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link

should

― Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I think during weekdays Manhattan actually has more people in it, but it empties out at night. Where should we count people, when they're at work or home in their beds?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Manhattan has the highest population density in the country though.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Where they're drunk at midnight, Tracer.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:49 (nineteen years ago) link

tracer, i think the census officially counts people by asking them where they get their pizza slices.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

DAMN RIGHT

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait, there's life east of the I-5?

According to Kim Wilde, there's nothing but.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Liza is still around, and she sang it first. Ask!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 14 February 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

i like the way "neck" is used in naming places ("great neck" is still the funniest place-name ever)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 14 February 2005 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

I have always assumed that Frank is singing (City), (City). It's in the intonation. Same way I know that Ja Rule is singing (City), (State). Which I suspect is the reason the question arose, yes?

Anyway, it's all about the Bernstein-Comden-Green "New York, New York," not the Kander & Ebb.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

It's up to you, Schenectady!

― briania (briania), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

it's a helluva town.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I have always assumed that Frank is singing (City), (City). It's in the intonation. Same way I know that Ja Rule is singing (City), (State). Which I suspect is the reason the question arose, yes?

No.

― his face was burned off in a flaming crossbow accident (King Kobra), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

maybe "new york, new york" is actually shorthand for "new york (football giants, who play in new jersey), new york (football jets, who also play in new jersey)," and frank is actually singing it as a bitter and sarcastic new jerseyan.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I always thought the double meaning was intended.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I always thought the double meaning was intended.

Communist.

― his face was burned off in a flaming crossbow accident (King Kobra), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 00:34 (nineteen years ago) link

If the Bronx is up and the Battery's down, then I assume the first new york mentioned is wherever falls between those two places. I'm assuming thats Manhattan. Having never been to NYC or the USA I could be talking out my arse, but I've always assumed the songs title was a little joke at the repetition of the city name and state.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:17 (nineteen years ago) link

"I have always assumed that Frank is singing (City), (City). It's in the intonation. Same way I know that Ja Rule is singing (City), (State)."

funny, I assumed the opposite.

― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:34 (nineteen years ago) link

If the Bronx is up and the Battery's down, then I assume the first new york mentioned is wherever falls between those two places. I'm assuming thats Manhattan.

presumably "the battery" means battery park, which is the farthest downtown you can go in manhattan. the bronx begins at the uptown end -- running parallel to harlem, inwood, etc, and extending farther north up towards westchester.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't understand. Why don't they address is Manhattan, New York. How is Manhattan more New York than Brooklyn?
-- Alba (albab...), February 14th, 2005 9:39 AM.

If someone offered me an all-expenses paid trip to "New York", and I found I *couldn't* go to Manhatten, I'd be pretty cheesed.

― Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:40 (nineteen years ago) link

It sounds bad enough the first time he sings it ...

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 06:42 (nineteen years ago) link

If someone offered me an all-expenses paid trip to "New York", and I found I *couldn't* go to Manhatten, I'd be pretty cheesed.

manhattan's not all that great.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Forget 'Big Apple,' N.Y. wants a new slogan: City seeks to trademark 'The World's Second Home'

― stockholm cindy's secret world with martin bashir (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't want a new slogan, i don't want the fucking olympics here, and i don't want a goddamn west side stadium!

― stockholm cindy's secret world with martin bashir (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:51 (nineteen years ago) link

"the big apple"'s meaninglessness is exactly what makes it a great slogan! "the world's second home" is way too loaded.

― stockholm cindy's secret world with martin bashir (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:56 (nineteen years ago) link

and boring.

― Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Thursday, 17 February 2005 20:42 (nineteen years ago) link

ten years pass...

BTW: I only recently learned that "New York, New York" implies "Manhattan" whereas "New York City" refers to all five boroughs. (New Yorkers can take issue with this, but it's in the stylebook at my job.)
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, February 14, 2005 11:11 AM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Aw, I was so much younger then.

― jaymc, Thursday, 16 April 2015 05:15 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/25/457289950/broadway-composer-john-kander-reflects-on-a-career-of-hidden-treasures

has a big clip from the rejected theme song. clearly about manhattan.

― Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Saturday, 28 January 2017 10:00 (seven years ago) link

Re: thread 1, seems obvious to me that he's borrowing the familiar City, State formula, but giving emphasis to to it in a way that turns it, emotionally, into City, CITY!!!! I mean no way on that awesome last declaration is he thinking about NYC's situaton within the larger state economy or upstate getaway optiions or w/e.

― stein beck ii: the wrath of grapes (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 28 January 2017 17:27 (seven years ago) link

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