DRUMMERS: Advice for a beginner

hi 5 accepted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

really, being honest and straightforward is obvious and my general mo in life -- my real q is always what else could i be doing to demonstrate that i am worth taking a chance on?

― cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Wednesday, September 17, 2014 1:59 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark

lol i've taken to wearing an ancient akron public schools tshirt that says "i'm worth your investment" in capital letters
so subtle

i like to confine my news to my tumblr now but i would like to update this thread with some geeky excitement about my new cymbal! i went to the drum store for the first time yesterday and bought a cymbal and new heads. when i walked into the store, i told them i was looking for a cymbal, and the guy was like "we've got a few" and pointed to his right, where i saw a glassed-in room filled ceiling to floor with cymbals. i was the only one in there and it was so fun testing them all out. of course the one i wanted was $300, handmade and Turkish, but I found a decent substitute for much cheaper and I love the way it sounds. Being able to make another sound is like realizing I have another arm that I wasn't using. Love it!! The new heads are great too, and I feel like my sound is much less cheap/flabby.

two years ago today! still at it. i went back and read from the point where i initially revived this thread (when i brought my drums home) and realized that i would never have made it this far if not for early support from this thread. i didn't know anything! i feel like i've grown a lot because i've done a lot of things that were inconceivably (prohibitively) anxiety-inducing to me 2 years ago. thank you!

aw, congrats!

thanks! i feel good about it and very grateful. i have learned so much about so many different things too. my life feels significantly enriched in a number of ways. hi 5s for everyone!

*high five*

Now I want to get a drum set.

― Elvis Telecom, Friday, June 21, 2013 1:22 PM (2 years ago)

I got a drum set today!

I totally sound like a guitarist who's playing drums for the first time - nevertheless my serotonin level totally shot up within minutes of playing along to the Ramones and "Hallogallo."

Drumming is wonderfully therapeutic, yes. It's up there with sex and drinking in terms of things I wish I were doing, pretty much all the time.

You don't need to read music, know theory, or have a perfect ear to work out the drum parts from your favorite records. So you can quickly commit a few cool and funky and bitchin' drum parts to your muscle memory, and you're 90% of the way there.

The downsides are: ridiculously heavy and bulky equipment, long setup/teardown time, need for transport, and most of all the FKN LOUDNESS. Played correctly, they are definitely too loud for the neighbors of apartment-dwellers, and often too loud for the neighbors of 'burb house-dwellers. In my experience you need serious soundproofing or extreme remoteness to rock out guilt-free.

Me, I drummed in mediocre bands in high school and college. For like 10 years after, I had no car and lived in tiny walk-up apartments with lots of non-deaf neighbors. So I sold my much-beloved drum kit for way too little and resigned myself to a non-drumming lifestyle. I took up lots of other instruments (guitar, bass, mandolin) but they didn't satisfy on the same level.

Now I have an acoustic kit that is too loud and big for my living situation (it lives in my bandmate's house), and an electronic kit that I can play with headphones or at low volume. I still crave the real drums for all their headaches. When I was gigging regularly while playing both guitar and drums, I'd arrive at the venue hours in advance, take several trips to load in, then all the work associated with setup and tuning and everything, (play for 20 or 30 or 45 minutes), then all the work associated with tearing down and loading out, and drive home. So five or six elapsed hours for maybe 30 minutes of the joy of performing music live in front of people. I have rarely been happier, though. It is a paradox.

woohoo!! elvis, looking at the dates, you originally posted that about a week after i got mine :)
still at it!!

the downsides are not to do with the noise or bulkiness at all in my case, it's more about my personal situation and lack of experience with the overall endeavor of playing music with other people. still at it though!
the best part remains being able to be a noisemaking musical shapeshifter

I haven't played drums in a decade, but I'm excited about the opp to sort of relearn with a friend's dad band this week. Curious to see if it's a bit like getting back on a bicycle (blisters aside), or how a few years of learning guitar will or won't change my approach.

Anyone have a reco for a fine electronic kit?

I bought a Roland TD-15 kit earlier this year and I'm pretty happy with it. I tried a lot of kits before buying and I'd strongly recommend (1) getting Roland over Yamaha (sound is much more natural) and (2) spending extra for something with mesh heads (feel is much more natural and sound is quieter). I'd also recommend spending more for an actual kick pad instead of a no-pad pedal (although the no-pad pedal is quieter).

I'd poke around a little on eBay/Craiglist because people seem to get rid of these things all the time and I get the impression that they don't deteriorate that much from use.

One thing I would caution: if you live in an apartment where noise is a problem, electronic drum kits still make noise and cause vibration, they're not silent. In particular, a lot of vibration comes through the legs of the kit and into the floor. You can use memory foam mats, rugs, and/or plywood platforms mounted on cut tennis balls to reduce the vibration.

The TD-15 is basically a mid-level kit, and I'm happy with it. Obviously it doesn't quite fool you into thinking your playing a real kit. The range of sounds each head makes is far far narrower than a real drum, although the dynamic response is pretty decent.

man, i can't even remember the last time i played drum kit alone, for practice or catharsis. just don't have a good situation for it so i only play at shows. i feel like i'm able to maintain my current level through mental practice, imaginary drum kit playing (ie hand & foot tapping in my office, lol), and occasionally getting out the pad. i don't appear to be getting worse, and i've made my peace with not getting better chops-wise.

can't stand electronic drum kids btw.

I used to be 100% against them but the Roland kits won me over a little, esp given that the alternative for me right now is basically never playing at all. Also it has enough different drum sounds and is tweakable enough that it's possible to put together a "kit" that I think sounds ok.

In performance I think they are atrocious.

(unless you're doing something that uses "electronic drum sounds" and you're not trying to imitate acoustic drums, of course)

Yeah, I would never put the e-drums on a stage - unless that were the point, i.e., to have Simmonsy sounds, 808 sounds, or jokey samples like screams and car horns and such. As it stands I have never done it - both because it doesn't make sense with my musical style, and also because it would be Yet More Stuff to Bring.

My electronic setup is not even an e-kit: it's an Octapad, plus external pads for hat, snare, and kick. Usually I set it up so that I play normal beats on the external pads, with the Octapad having a row of toms and a row of cymbals. Useful for quiet rehearsal and occasional bloopy experiments, not much else.

I have also done occasional acoustic folky-type gigs with an array of small hand percussion - bongos, shakers, foot tambourine. Occasionally adequate for the situation but not viscerally satisfying.

My preferred stripped-down folky-jazzy kit is just a snare and hi-hat, played with brushes. You can get a lot of mileage out of that. (Can throw in a splash or crash too without too much trouble.)

(I once sat in with a wedding band with brushes on an upturned metal cookie sheet. Surprising amount of sonic options there.)

there's one dude i know who is doing interesting things with V-drums, using a custom midi setup to alter the sounds (hand-free) for each section of a track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxTJSfEI5GA

I once saw a King Crimson side project where Adrian Belew played V-Drums the entire set.

not sure if that's an argument for or against them tbh

I am curious about the midi programming possibilities. I've also heard there are companies that offer packs of sounds that are more realistic/natural than Roland's that you can play through the V-drums with midi. I'm very un tech savvy so I don't know much about it.

For the most part I just don't see a lot to gain by using a drumkit as a controller for sounds. But I love a blend of acoustic drums with electronics. Been geeking out on these Deantoni Parks videos recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VYuwImqKo

I spent an hour in a practice studio this summer playing this. It's a loop, but has some nice high hat accents and an unusual bass drum / snare rhythm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMPJdr4XtQo

For the most part I just don't see a lot to gain by using a drumkit as a controller for sounds.

I see it as just another interface, as opposed to a piano keyboard or a laptop/ipad. Granted, it is more limited in that it requires more physical movement and has fewer "options" in a standard configuration, but compared to a drum machine, it is a lot more appealing to me, whereas using a drum machine feels too much like "work" in terms of physical use.

I got my electronic drumset for free from a friend about a year ago, and it is convenient in that I can play it in my apartment, as opposed to having to drive to the practice space to play my kit. The weakest aspect of it is that it isn't as responsive at fast(er) speeds and/or with certain rudiments.

I also successfully converted a small kick drum into a floor tom, and want to do other modifications to it to give it more interesting sound(s).

that deantoni parks video is awesome! i was able to find a pro-shot version of it

Leave it to a drummer to be virtuoso annoying. (/drummerjoke)

#notalldrummers

tips for loading a crap set with no cases of any sort into a 4-door car? i'm drilling myself today!
i got it home the first time, so i know it fits but it hasn't been in the car since (except for half of it once when i drove to ohio)
i feel like the things i have to protect are the hi hat stand/pedal and the bass pedal since those are the things with moving parts. the rest seems pretty sturdy.

fwiw i won't have any passengers so i will be able to use the passenger seat for the bass drum if i need to. seems like a good idea so that everything else will have plenty of room.

Get a little bag to help you carry collapsible things, like pedals and stands and cymbals.

Josh otm about a stand bag or box. I used to use a bashed up old hardshell suitcase.

I'd put the bass drum in first in the back and fit other stuff around it, snare and or cymbals on front seat or floor since they're a bit more fragile.

Maybe I'll see what I can fit into a suitcase. Organization is not my strong suit! At least it's nice outside.

Hardware is really the main trouble - drums are light and hollow (if you're clever you can often nest them).

In a sedan, I will lay the hardware across the back seat, then put toms and snare on top of it. Bass drum goes on the passenger seat or trunk (but I usually have amps in the trunk).

I have the stands in a rolling duffel bag. The hi-hat stand is too long for it, so I may variously have the hi-hat rod poking out the top, disassemble it, or keep that stand separate from the others. Disassembling it is tidiest (unscrew the rod from its housing), but it's a pain to reassemble, particularly in a chaotic gigging/drinking situation, because the threads need to be exactly right.

On nesting toms: I have a kit with concert toms (i.e., no bottom heads) that is specifically designed to nest. The 10" and 12" toms go inside the floor tom. But even with a standard-issue floor tom you can cut out the middle of a cheap drumhead, and use it to keep the hoop and tension rods in place. You don't want to just remove the whole bottom head, because the hoop protects the bearing edge.

how big is your car? if you have a standard sedan, the kick drum will probably need to be in the passenger seat -- an 18" kick won't fit in a trunk or back seat of your standard Accord/Corrolla/etc. If you have a hatchback, you are golden.

the most common efficient stand transport methods that are cheap are the golf bag or the rolled up carpet. The carpet then doubles as your drum rug. I have a crappy suitcase with wheels that I put everything in except for the hi-hat stand and one of my cymbal stands that doesn't collapse that much. Personally, I'd prefer more trips rather than carrying one very very heavy thing, especially when there are stairs.

Remove the bottom head of your kick drum if you want. People do it all the time. It's not dangerous. Plus, it is useful for storing the smaller drums, and allows you more options for modifying the sound (i.e. putting blanket, pillow, what have you to make it less boomy) as well as mic-ing it.

Remove the bottom head of your kick drum if you want. People do it all the time. It's not dangerous. Plus, it is useful for storing the smaller drums, and allows you more options for modifying the sound (i.e. putting blanket, pillow, what have you to make it less boomy) as well as mic-ing it.

― sarahell, Saturday, February 20, 2016 3:29 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^ this.

Also, while a bag/rug is good hardware solution for the short term, you will never regret investing in a wheeled hardware case. They last forever (my SKB is going on 14 years of heavyish use with no signs of fatigue), and you'll be happier rolling a case than lugging a bag or a rug.

and drum pedals are pretty fucking sturdy. the only thing to worry about there is losing the dumb little screws that attach the 2nd pedal assembly to the main pedal/beater assembly if you have a double kick pedal. as genius as the concept of the double kick pedal is, those dumb little screws suck balls some times.

thanks everybody! i'm so glad i have a trusted group of people to ask questions like this without fear of reprisal.
the place i'm going already has a rug (iirc, it has been there every time i have been there) so i'm probably just going to throw what i can into a normal bag for now and load my crap into my 4-door ford focus as well as i can. tomorrow i am going to do another drill but today i have a terrible terrible cold, so i had to stop. not even dayquil helped. gotta get healthy!

fortunately, this is all really good advice for the future, assuming this is not the last opportunity i have to play outside of my home. my mom told me she was concerned about my ability to carry all this stuff and asked whether i could call ahead and "ask if there would be someone there to help [me]" and oh how i laughed
can you imagine doing that?! i would sooner die "the staircase" style trying to do it myself than call ahead to secure assistance (that is an exaggeration but i wouldn't agree to doing something if i didn't think i could handle doing it by myself)

Disassembling it is tidiest (unscrew the rod from its housing), but it's a pain to reassemble, particularly in a chaotic gigging/drinking situation, because the threads need to be exactly right.
True -- I'm sure disassembling the whole thing would be ideal if i were touring or traveling frequently, but this is a local show and i'm anxious about making sure everything works ok so disassembling seems risky.

I never used road cases for my drums -- they're expensive, add hassle to setting up and breaking down, and I don't think they matter that much unless you are either putting your drums in cargo or have some kind of perfect finish on your drums you want to preserve. The shells themselves are unlikely to get damaged in normal van conditions unless you are stacking equipment in a stupid way where an amp is going to crash into one. I did have one for my snare only, because I cared a lot about snare sound and liked to keep the heads from getting dented (also I think it may have just come with the snare when I bought it off someone?).

A hardware bag is v helpful though.

Sarahell makes a fair point - for some situations, more trips with light stuff is preferable to one heavy thing.

I think I've had a couple gigs where we were only going a short distance car to stage, and I didn't bother with the "body bag." I left the stands extended at their normal length (just collapsing the legs), and laid them across the back seat.

welcome to the worst part of being a drummer! so proud.

i stopped using the duffel bag for stands/hardware awhile ago, it was just too heavy and my back is not what it once was. i found it a lot safer to just move stands separately, even if it results in more trips.

Every time I move drums I wish I played the piccolo - even when using the dinky-ass Rhythm Traveler, or my Octapad-based electronic setup.

NYC contrabassists have my eternal sympathy

i don't know which would be worse. i guess you can't fit an upright bass into a regular cab and taking it on the subway is probably a nightmare, but at least it's possible, drums just have too many pieces unless you're really dedicated to some type of wacky Hipgig situation. but in nyc everybody just takes their cymbals and pedal and plays the house kit, right?

More or less, yeah (most bring their snare, too). But sometimes/usually the house kit is a pile of poo, either in terms of it being a falling-apart cheapo set, or missing key components (like heads).

My tiny 60-pound daughter plays a euphonium. Some days I'm sure she wishes she played the drums.

Even an el cheapo house kit sounds like paradise. I played at the Continental in NYC a while ago and it was a breeze.

In DC almost no venues have house kits or backlines. Recording studios and rehearsal studios do, but you're expected to bring snare, pedals, and cymbals.