Serial - the podcast *spoilers*

That said I have no idea what Adnan's mosque is like and my limited experience is maybe not representative.

There are no calls period between 8-9 basically which supports idea that phone is with Adnan at that point and he has turned it off maybe because he's at prayer. And Adnan pretty definitely has phone around 7 since there is a call to Yasser. It strikes me as pretty implausible that Adnan would not remember having given the phone at that point (along with his car to Jay) at 7 o'clock or remember getting it back at ~9pm and I don't believe he's ever claimed he has, so I think you have to assume the phone was with both of them.

Well, problem is that calls at 8:04 and 8:05 are at Leakin Park. So Adnan cannot have returned to prayer at that point. And yeah, it's implausible that Adnan would not remember that he gave car and phone out, but it's also implausible that he wouldn't just lie about it, since he's obviously then lying about being at Mosque. It's just a weird, weird, thing, with no satisfactory answers. He was high as a kite, though.

I thought 8:04 and 8:05 are elsewhere?

He could be at the mosque between 8:10-9:00.

Or even after 9 if he's stepping out to make those phone calls.

They are nearby Leakin Park, around where the car was hidden. Consistent with a single man needing a ride, because he had just gotten rid of a car. And those calls are to Jenn, and Jenn stated that when she arrived to pick up Jay, he was with Adnan. So if we're believing the story of Adnan burying Hae, there is not that much time where he could be at Mosque. And at least, the phonerecords doesn't show that.

Consistent with two people and two cars (Adnans and Haes) and Jay needing a reed now that Adnan's going to the mosque and Hae's car is being dumped. There's almost two hours for him to be at the mosque.

Wait Jenn states that when she picks up Jay, Adnan is there? Totally forgot that little fact, but that's pretty damning too.

Ride not a reed unless he's going to play some sweet sax.

Well, it can't both be damning that the phonerecords indicate he is at Mosque at 8:10 to 9, AND that Jenn sees him somewhere else at 8:30.

The phone records don't indicate he was anywhere from 8:10-9 and he could have driven to the mosque immediately after Jenn picks up Jay (no idea how long that takes from when she gets paged). It's damning in that it supports a version of events where Jay and Adnan are together until past-8. Whether Adnan gets to the mosque or not or how long he is there is pretty immaterial.

Also, Jenn is lying. Her story doesn't match Jay's, but ok, nothing ever does. She says she gets a call to pick up Jay at Westview, then arrives there first. If Adnan and Jay are already on their way, and Adnan is in a hurry, why would he choose to deliver Jay somewhere so close to Jenn that she gets there first? Also, Jenn then says that she and Jay went to Stephanie, but Stephanie denies this.

Of course as I understand it the Free Adnan faction holds Jenn in almost as low regard as they do Jay so I'm sure there's some "reasonable" explanation for why Jenn would be lying about them being together.

haha and there you go.

"If Adnan and Jay are already on their way, and Adnan is in a hurry, why would he choose to deliver Jay somewhere so close to Jenn that she gets there first?"

How does Adnan know where Jenn is when Jay pages her? How do you know Adnan is in a hurry? There are some leaps here.

Yeah, sure. But Jay and Jenns story literally is that Jay called Jenn to get her to help him with covering up his involvement in the murder. So, you know. It's not a stretch of the imagination. She also lies about Jay being at her house in the afternoon, when the cellphonerecords show him to be anywhere but.

So again just to make sure I understand this correctly:

Jay killed Hae alone.
Jay disposed of her body alone with two cars while hanging out with Adnan.
Jay then enlisted Jenn to both cover up crime and also frame Adnan.
Adnan has no alibi for any critical point of this because he is super unlucky and Jay is super lucky.
None of this falls completely down under any scrutiny at time because again Jay is super lucky and cops are deadset on it being Adnan.

I think I've got it but I want to make sure.

And if Adnan wasn't in a hurry, then why didn't he just drive Jay where he needed to be? Jay thought about this as well, until the trial, he says that Adnan drew him home, and then Jenn picked him up from there. Jenn says the mall, though.

I am guessing that Jay's careless self needed to be with someone with a car. No hurry I'll just page her.

This Intercept thing is becoming a real mess. Now NVC and Intercept editors are on Twitter donation-shaming Adnan supporters and attacking "media feminists".

Not remotely surprised that combo of Intercept folks and Serial fans is turning into a butthurtathon.

I don't think we'll see part two.

It might contain more Ed notes but you'll see it. Websites love traffic.

Well, hope you're right.

They apparantly spiked a response post written by NVC in favor of just doing corrections.

Adnan definitely has the phone around 9, so if Jay has it alone for those slightly post 8 calls he has to somehow get the phone back to adnan by 9. And that doesn't square with adnan being at mosque - Jay shows up at services and hands back the phone? Jay rolls up right when adnan has just happened to step outside?

No offence, I really don't mean to sound rude, but at this point I think it seems a bit to me as if you're grasping at straws, man alive. There is a very common explanation for that, one that people did all the time back before cellphones were everywhere, which is that Adnan and Jay had agreed before on when Jay should bring car and phone back to Adnan. Again: The problem isn't that Adnan was at Mosque. The weird thing is that Adnan says he had his phone with him at Mosque. Of course, there is another, possible but less normal, explanation for how car and phone got back to Adnan, which might on the other hand help explain why stoned Adnan was confused on what had happened: That Jay simply left the car at Mosque, with keys inside, phone in glove compartment, and unlocked doors, then left (to be picked up by Jenn, probably).

Yes, man alive is cleArly the one grasping at straws here

And I clearly shouldn't be worried about seeming rude, I see.

Yeah PK should have said no offense first that would have made it cool.

Xp while that's not impossible, you're talking about a scenario where the phone changes hands an awful lot between them during the course of the day. Plus it means Jay setting in advance a time by which he knows he will be done disposing of evidence along with Jenn whom he had to page and meet up with. And they're high. "I'll bring it back to mosque at 830 sharp" is not the most likely story under those circumstances. But I agree that the problem is Adnan claiming to have his phone at the mosque at a time when the phone clearly wasn't at the mosque. You read that as adnan being wrong about having his phone, I read it (possibly) as him having stuck to his story after he realized the phone records contradicted it, because he thought changing it would look worse.

Remember adnan did not know in advance that cell evidence could be used against him. No one knew about that stuff
in 1999. So if he made up an alibi in advance, he wouldn't have been able to consider the effect of the phone.

Yes, Alex. Clearly that is the only thing other than 'grasping at straws' I wrote in my post. There are no other words in my post. Def not an explanation of exactly why it seems to me that man alive is grasping at straws. Oh no.

Your explanations are all grasping at straws as far as I am concerned. You haven't made one supportable assertion that I can recall. No offense.

Please explain.

Explain what? That your entire explanation is far more tortured the paragraph that you are responding to (just like virtually every other version of events you've put forth)?

You think people agreeing in advance when and where to meet is 'tortured'? Seriously? That is something you have never ever done before?

And yeah, please explain why your latest allegation is true, instead of just lobbing a ton of other allegations in my way.

What latest allegation? The allegation that you're grasping at straws?

Yes I think your entire story of the murder is tortured and nonsensical. Your explanation for individual events equally so.

You think people agreeing in advance when and where to meet is 'tortured'? Seriously? That is something you have never ever done before?

― Frederik B, 11. januar 2015 16:26 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"No one has said this is what happened,,, but people did totally let other people borrow phones and agree to meet places back in 1999. Problem solved!"

I think evidence-free assertions that this is what could have "happened" and thus a good explanation is tortured, yes.

Christ. MAN ALIVE ASKED HOW IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. That's it. I'm done responding to you with anything other than 'Shut up, you obnoxious troll.'

So shut the fuck up, you obnoxious troll. Why'd you even get involved? Man alive asks, I answer. He does not seem offended by my 'grasping at straws' line - of course, if he was, I'd apologize. Go troll someone else at this point.

Whatever. Have a good life over-sensitive Danish man.

Whoa. I did not know that Ta-Nahisi Coates went to Woodlawn High

Welp, here's the rest:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/14/exclusive-serial-prosecutor-defends-guilty-verdict-adnan-syed-case-part-ii/

I don't have much to say about it really, it's not earth-moving, it won't change any minds. I did think it was interesting to hear his spin on certain points, like the "procuring a lawyer for Jay" thing (it sounds a lot less tainted the way he describes it), and the reason for the first mistrial (he paints it as Cristina cleverly taking advantage of a moment). This is of course spin, but so is the show's interpretation. It's not conclusive, but it does present another possible explanation for things presented differently by the show.

I feel like I'm missing something on the DNA evidence point, there either was or wasn't DNA evidence, why is this not clear?

Some very valid points here, I think.

http://natashavc.tumblr.com/post/108089592316/here-are-the-e-mails-from-koenig-to-urick-left-on

His spin on the "liar" thing sounds wrong, because the judge clearly does accuse her of lying before she repeats it. Maybe she still seized on it by amplifying her voice (no way to prove/disprove), but she didn't put words in his mouth.

I thought that was at the bench though. She repeats so everyone hears it... I thought.

Well, since there's no decibel meter record I don't think we know for sure whether it was only her voice they heard or not, do we? She claims that other people in the courtroom told her they could hear the conversation.

The event that led to it seems slightly strange -- she claimed to have never seen the key phone records, which were stipulated into evidence? Like was that just negligence on her part then, assuming she wasn't lying?